The Gospel testimony of John Calvin

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dialm

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That was exactly what Jesus said at His crucifixion.

You are correct.

(John Calvin is accused of being Christ-like by his enemies.)
 
Lon

Lon

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Certainly quaint, but honest?

From His will:

John Calvin said:
I give thanks to God, that taking compassion on me whom he had created and placed in this world, he not only delivered me by his power out of the deep darkness of idolatry, into which I was plunged, that he might bring me into the light of his gospel, and make me a partaker of the doctrine of salvation, of which I was most unworthy; that with the same goodness and mercy he has graciously and kindly borne with my multiplied transgressions and sins, for which I deserved to be rejected and cut off by him; and has also exercised towards me such great compassion and clemency, that he has condescended to use my labor in preaching and publishing the truth of his gospel. I also testify and declare, that it is my full intention to pass the remainder of my life in the same faith and religion, which he has delivered to me by his gospel; having no other defense or refuge of salvation than his gratuitous adoption, on which alone my safety depends. I also embrace with my whole heart the mercy which he exercises towards me for the sake of Jesus Christ, atoning for my crimes by the merits of his death and passion, that in this way satisfaction may be made for all my transgressions and offenses, and the remembrance of them blotted out. I further testify and declare that, as a suppliant, I humbly implore of him to grant me to be so washed and purified by the blood of that sovereign Redeemer, sited for the sins of the human race, that I may be permitted to stand before his tribunal in the image of the Redeemer himself. I likewise declare, that according to the measure of grace and mercy which God has vouchsafed me, I have diligently made it my endeavor, both in my sermons, writings, and commentaries, purely and uncorruptly to preach his word, and faithfully to interpret his sacred Scriptures. I testify and declare that in all the controversies and disputes, which I have conducted with the enemies of the gospel, I have made use of no craftiness, nor corrupt and sophistical arts, but have been engaged in defending the truth with candor and sincerity.
But, alas! my study, and my zeal, if they deserve the name, have been so remiss and languid, that I confess innumerable things have been wanting in me to discharge the duties of my office in all excellent manner; and unless the infinite bounty of God had been present, all my study would have been vain and transient. I also acknowledge that unless the same goodness had accompanied me, the endowments of mind bestowed upon me by God, must have made me more and more chargeable with guilt and inactivity before his tribunal. And on these grounds I witness and declare, that I hope for no other refuge of salvation than this alone – that since God is a Father of mercy, he will show himself a Father to me, who confess myself a miserable sinner.
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John Calvin said:
I render thanks to God, not only because he has had compassion on me, His poor creature, to draw me out of the abyss of idolatry in which I was plunged, in order to bring me to the light of His gospel and make me a partaker of the doctrine of salvation, of which I was altogether unworthy, and continuing His mercy He has supported me amid so many sins and short-comings, which were such that I well deserved to be rejected by Him a hundred thousand times—but what is more, He has so far extended His mercy towards me as to make use of me and of my labour, to convey and announce the truth of His gospel. (John Calvin, Tracts and Letters, Vol. 7: Letters, Part 4, 1559–1564, ed. Jules Bonnet, trans. Marcus Robert Gilchrist [Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 2009], 365–366)
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And if you were diligent enough to read his commentaries on scripture, you'd know he embraces Romans 10:9&10 Ephesians 2:8&9 etc.

Cheapshots or actual research? :think: I'll go with reputable, honest, diligent, and faithful for this discussion. The rest? :nono: Not so much. If you are honest and not picking fights, I'm all for it otherwise :wave:
 
D

dialm

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Bradley D said:
Although I do not buy into Calvin's or his followers interpretation on predestination and election. I agree that some of Calvin's writings/theology is good reading.
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Fair enough Bradly D.

But doesn't it make more sense to stick with a discussion about the writings of Calvin then expanding to what the 'followers' of Calvin say?
 
T

Truster

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''But if it be of Elohim, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against Elohim''. Acts 5:39 KJV
 
D

dialm

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Truster said:
''But if it be of Elohim, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against Elohim''. Acts 5:39 KJV
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You simply must bring someone stronger and wiser than him. My advice to you is the same as to the 'other' apostate

That verse ain't going to help you.
 
musterion

musterion

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Lon said:
Certainly quaint, but honest?
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And completely Catholic. Especially this part:

I also embrace with my whole heart the mercy which he exercises towards me for the sake of Jesus Christ, atoning for my crimes by the merits of his death and passion [what about the Resurrection for his justification? Oh, right...Catholic], that in this way satisfaction may be made for all my transgressions and offenses, and the remembrance of them blotted out. I further testify and declare that, as a suppliant, I humbly implore of him to grant me to be so washed and purified by the blood of that sovereign Redeemer, sited for the sins of the human race, that I may be permitted to stand before his tribunal in the image of the Redeemer himself.
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There is nothing that that a devout Catholic of today could not say. If Calvin were soundly saved according to Paul's saving Gospel -- for there is no other -- all of the above would be in the past tense where Paul had already put it because ALL THAT CALVIN HOPED AND BEGGED FOR is already accomplished for a member of the Body of Christ.

Instead, the man exhibits no indication of settled knowledge and rest in the complete and finished work of Christ on his behalf. No indication Calvin knew that he already stood before God declared holy and just in Christ and was already seated with Him there. No indication that he believed, or even knew, his forgiveness and justification in Christ could have already been an accomplished fact.

Instead, as I pointed out a few days ago, there's a clear note of uncertainty and fear in his will; fear that a knowledge and receipt of the perfect love that is in Christ would have cast out. That's the sound of fear from someone who died believing a sacramental gospel of works, where one can't know until after death if the scales balanced...the gospel of Rome.

Now, Lon, please go find us Calvin's testimony in having heard, understood and believed the Gospel of the grace of God. We'll wait while you research it.
 
musterion

musterion

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Pursuant to the above, from this very morning's devotional that I read daily:

SAFELY IN - December 14, 2015

"You are made partakers of His resurrection, through the faith wrought in you by God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12, Cony.).

All true believers are gratefully aware that they are not going to hell, but few realize that they are already in heaven.

"There is no question about there being a beautiful new position for the believer, but people limit it to its being theirs when they die. Scripture shows that it is ours now! People say, 'You get to heaven when you die.' No such thing. You have it now. It is not your death that entitles you to it, but the Lord Jesus' death. There is not a single shade that was between us and the Father, but the Lord Jesus has removed in His death." -J.B.S.

"The great work of the Lord Jesus was wrought on the Cross to bring us to the Father; His death and His Blood, His ascension and sitting on the Throne; all mean one thing our being brought nigh to dwell in the Father's presence. And with what object? That the Father may have us, to mature us, to work in us that which is well-pleasing in His sight. Let no one think that the entrance into the Holiest is the end; it is only the beginning. It brings us into the right position, in which the Father in His divine power can work out His will and purpose in us conforming us to the image of His Son." -A.M.

"The Lord Jesus stood where I was, and now I stand where He is, and that is the only place I have before my Father. We may fail and grieve the Holy Spirit, but that is where we are set." -J.N.D.

"If there be progress upward there must be progress in life and ways down here; you cannot see the need for a change in your ways here until you are transformed by the influence of nearness to Him there. You thus gradually find things here are not suitable for the order and nature of the things which are so attractive to the renewed heart up there." -J.B.S.

"Your life IS [not "might someday be"] hidden with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3).
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Calvin evidently knew none of this or, like all Catholics, are told it isn't true and so won't believe it.
 
Lon

Lon

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musterion said:
And completely Catholic. Especially this part:

There is nothing that that a devout Catholic of today could not say. If Calvin were soundly saved according to Paul's saving Gospel -- for there is no other -- all of the above would be in the past tense where Paul had already put it because ALL THAT CALVIN HOPED AND BEGGED FOR is already accomplished for a member of the Body of Christ.
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As problematic as that is, they had no concept of Dispensationalism, nor especially MAD and were fresh out of Rome. Calvin wrote this, however:
John Calvin - Institutes said:
Therefore, while we all labour naturally under the same disease, those only recover health to whom the Lord is pleased to put forth his healing hand. The others whom, in just judgement, he passes over, pine and rot away till they are consumed. And this is the only reason why some persevere to the end, and others, after beginning their course, fall away. Perseverance is the gift of God, which he does not lavish promiscuously on all, but imparts to whom he pleases. If it is asked how the difference arises – why some steadily persevere, and others prove deficient in steadfastness, we can give no other reason than that the Lord, by his mighty power, strengthens and sustains the former, so that they perish not, while he does not furnish the same assistance to the latter, but leaves them to be monuments of instability. ~ Institutes of the Christian Religion 2.5.3
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musterion said:
Instead, the man exhibits no indication of settled knowledge and rest in the complete and finished work of Christ on his behalf. No indication Calvin knew that he already stood before God declared holy and just in Christ and was already seated with Him there. No indication that he believed, or even knew, his forgiveness and justification in Christ could have already been an accomplished fact.
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Again, read deeper if you are concerned and interested. I can keep posting quotes but are you just trying to accuse here? Is this simply a MAD plug? :think:

musterion said:
Instead, as I pointed out a few days ago, there's a clear note of uncertainty and fear in his will; fear that a knowledge and receipt of the perfect love that is in Christ would have cast out. That's the sound of fear from someone who died believing a sacramental gospel of works, where one can't know until after death if the scales balanced...the gospel of Rome.
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Philippians 2:12 :think: MAD and Open Theism embrace this scripture?

musterion said:
Now, Lon, please go find us Calvin's testimony in having heard, understood and believed the Gospel of the grace of God. We'll wait while you research it.
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Again, is this just a MAD commercial? What historical figure comes to mind that is able to embrace MAD? That's something I'd really be interested in. Were none of them saved until now? How far separated is MAD from the rest of Christianity? Not saved unless MAD? Shoot, I'd be quote mining from any source to substantiate MAD at that point. Were none saved by Christ's work until now??? Incredibly more interesting to me :think:
 
R

Robert Pate

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There was no evidence of the Holy Spirit in John Calvin's life.

You cannot be a murderous tyrant and profess that you are a Christians.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:9.
 
Lon

Lon

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musterion said:
Paul's letters were available.
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And did you happen to read Calvin's commentary on Paul' letters? :think: I did.
musterion said:
Red herring.
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Nevermind MAD, but I would like to see who MAD sees as an historical Christian saved by the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ prior to Dispensationalism. Such is no red herring but trying to figure out your scale for judgment of historical Christian figures.
musterion said:
MAD has nothing to do with it
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We'll see... I believe it does and would say it has a lot to do with it to other MADists, even if somehow not you because it is a question of MAD's place in history.
 
D

dialm

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musterion said:
Pursuant to the above, from this very morning's devotional that I read daily:



Calvin evidently knew none of this or, like all Catholics, are told it isn't true and so won't believe it.
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Are you saying that you don't have anything in common with Roman Catholics?
 
musterion

musterion

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And did you happen to read Calvin's commentary on Paul' letters?
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You posted the man's will, of all things, which reflects no knowledge of what Paul teaches is true for the Body of Christ.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Lon said:
And did you happen to read Calvin's commentary on Paul' letters? :think: I did.

Nevermind MAD, but I would like to see who MAD sees as an historical Christian saved by the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ prior to Dispensationalism. Such is no red herring but trying to figure out your scale for judgment of historical Christian figures.

We'll see... I believe it does and would say it has a lot to do with it to other MADists, even if somehow not you because it is a question of MAD's place in history.
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I see MAD in Paul's letters without Darby's input, so it was always there. I saw the differences before I ever heard the name Darby.
 
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