Good Friday?

rstrats

Active member
jamie,
re: "Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day...kill it at twilight...And...eat the flesh on that night..."

Since the night of the 14th is the first half of the calendar day, then twilight must be during the night of the 14th.
 

jamie

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Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end. (John 13:1 NKJV)​

The word before means prior to the Feast of Passover which began the 14th at night, i.e. the beginning of the 15th.
 

jamie

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re: "Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day...kill it at twilight...And...eat the flesh on that night..."

Since the night of the 14th is the first half of the calendar day, then twilight must be during the night of the 14th.

The Passover was eaten the night after it was killed. Are you saying the it was killed the afternoon of the 13th?
 

steko

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The Passover was killed on Nisan 14,

Yes.

the preparation day for Passover week.

No. You imposed those words into the text.
The word translated 'the preparation day' in places other than Mk 14:12 is 'paraskeue'.

In Mark 14:12 the word prepare is hetoimazo which means to prepare, make ready.

Yes. That's correct.
'hetoimazo' is used in every place to describe the preparing of the Passover meal.....not 'paraskeue'.

This means that the preparation day is not necessarily on the sixth day of the week, it can be any day of the week.

No.

Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation[paraskeue], that is, the day before the sabbath,
 

jamie

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Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. (John 18:28 NKJV)​

This would have on the 14th, the preparation day, since the Passover was eaten that night which began the 15th.

The preparation day for the Feast of Passover can be any day of the week, not necessarily Friday.
 

steko

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Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it. Then they shall eat the flesh on that night, roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
(Exodus 12:6-8 NKJV)​

The Passover was killed on the fourteenth and eaten that night which began the fifteenth. The next morning they left Egypt.

They departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the day after the Passover the children of Israel went out with boldness in the sight of all the Egyptians. (Numbers 33:3 NKJV)​

The Passover lamb or goat was killed on Nisan 14 and eaten that night. Nisan 14 can occur on any day of the week just like July 4 or December 25 can occur on any day of the week.

Yes to all of that, but even though the 14th can occur on any day of the week, in that year the 14th occured on the day before 'the preparation/paraskeue'.

To insist that the preparation day is always Friday is absurd and disproved by Mark 14:12.

'The Preparation/paraskeue' is not mentioned in Mk 14:12.
'Hetoimazo' is the word used in that verse and it is never translated 'the preparation' or 'the preparation day'.
Mk 14:12 does not disprove what you say.
You are conflating the terms 'hetoimazo' and 'paraskeue'.
They are not used interchangeably in the text.

Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation[paraskeue], that is, the day before the sabbath,
 

jamie

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No. You imposed those words into the text.
The word translated 'the preparation day' in places other than Mk 14:12 is 'paraskeue'.

Do we reject Mark 14:12 because it does not say paraskeue?


Yes. That's correct.
'hetoimazo' is used in every place to describe the preparing of the Passover meal.....not 'paraskeue'.

Do you agree that the preparing of the Passover meal can occur on any day of the week?


Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation[paraskeue], that is, the day before the sabbath,

Why do you claim that was the weekly Sabbath since Mark 16:1 says that after the Sabbath the women bought spices to anoint the body?
 

steko

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Do we reject Mark 14:12 because it does not say paraskeue?

I don't reject Mark 14:12 at all.
I take it just like it says.

To me, it says, 'on the first day of the week-long feast of unleavened bread[the 14th], which is the day on which the Passover lambs were killed, the disciples asked the Lord, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations[hetoimazo] so that you can eat the Passover?"

Do you see anything in my paraphrase which is out of line with what it says?

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?





Do you agree that the preparing of the Passover meal can occur on any day of the week?

Yes, I've already said as much.


Why do you claim that was the weekly Sabbath since Mark 16:1 says that after the Sabbath the women bought spices to anoint the body?

Mark says that 'the preparation/paraskue' means 'the day before the Sabbath'. I believe him. And, when I take him at his word and apply his definition in every place that the term is used, it all falls into place.

Mark says this:

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.


I take this to mean, "when the seventh day sabbath was over, the people had bought spices to anoint the body and proceeded to the tomb to do so". It's not complicated.
 

rstrats

Active member
jamie,
re: "The Passover was eaten the night after it was killed. Are you saying the it was killed the afternoon of the 13th?"

No. Exodus 12 says it was to be killed at twilight on the 14th. Websters New World Dictionary says that twilight is the period from sunset to dark which would be the beginning of the 14th.
 

jamie

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I don't reject Mark 14:12 at all.
Mark says this:

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.


I take this to mean, "when the seventh day sabbath was over, the people had bought spices to anoint the body and proceeded to the tomb to do so". It's not complicated.

Did you know "had" is not in the Greek text according to the interlinear, it was added by the KJV translators evidently to support their theory of a Friday crucifixion.

Modern translations just say bought, not had bought. Are you KJV only?
 

jamie

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No. Exodus 12 says it was to be killed at twilight on the 14th. Websters New World Dictionary says that twilight is the period from sunset to dark which would be the beginning of the 14th.

Did Jesus die between sunset and dark? Or did he die the evening of the 14th?

The evening sacrifice was around the ninth hour (3 PM) each day.
 

jamie

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'The Preparation/paraskeue' is not mentioned in Mk 14:12.
'Hetoimazo' is the word used in that verse and it is never translated 'the preparation' or 'the preparation day'.

...and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace (Ephesians 6:15 NKJV)

What word is used for "the preparation" in this verse?
 

steko

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Did you know "had" is not in the Greek text according to the interlinear, it was added by the KJV translators evidently to support their theory of a Friday crucifixion.

Modern translations just say bought, not had bought. Are you KJV only?

Yes, I knew that.
I don't think that the KJV translators ever questioned the crucifixion timeline or ever had to argue for it. A Friday crucifixion has been the accepted day since the first century.
In Greece today, the word for Friday is 'Paraskeve' and has been understood as the sixth day since the crucifixion event.
The argument for a 72 hour period is fairly recent and results is Christ rising on the 4th day rather than the third, which the text references again and again.

No, I am not a KJVO.
I compare most of the translations available and often use the original language texts.
 

achduke

Active member
jamie,
re: "The Passover was eaten the night after it was killed. Are you saying the it was killed the afternoon of the 13th?"

No. Exodus 12 says it was to be killed at twilight on the 14th. Websters New World Dictionary says that twilight is the period from sunset to dark which would be the beginning of the 14th.

Strongs Hebrew, 6153, ereb, has it as "Evening" for Exodus 12. This is the same word used in Genesis 1:5.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 

jamie

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The argument for a 72 hour period is fairly recent and results is Christ rising on the 4th day...

How do you figure that?

Jesus was buried as Thursday began and was raised as Sunday began.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday is three days.
 

steko

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How do you figure that?

Jesus was buried as Thursday began and was raised as Sunday began.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday is three days.

But Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday is four days.

If Christ was buried as Thursday began, as you say, then Christ would have risen on Sunday the fourth day.

If the chief priests and rulers of Israel delivered Him to be condemned to death and crucified Him on Thursday, then Cleopas and his companion, on the evening of the first day of the week would have said, "and beside all this, today is the fourth day since those things happened".
But, they didn't. They said, "today is the third day since those things happened".

Thursday- crucifixion
Friday
Saturday
Sunday- fourth day since it happened(crucifixion)


Friday- crucifixion
Saturday
Sunday- third day since it happened(crucifixion)
 
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