On Deservedness

musterion · Nov 22, 2015

bybee said:
just stupid lascivious women trying to blame men for whatever happens.

Thank you for saying this because that right there is the only point I (and perhaps some others) have tried to make. In MOST cases, the woman was a completely unwilling victim who did NOTHING and chose NOTHING to make the rape more possible than it otherwise would have been. Such women are completely without fault, guilt, blame, deservedness, responsibility, call it whatever you want

But what you said above DOES happen: there ARE stupid, lascivious women who increase the odds (unintentionally but stupidly) of being raped, yet I was told I was wrong for just pointing that out. Thank you for saying it.

glorydaz · Nov 22, 2015

ok doser said:
you're not a decent person bybee :nono:

you're a hate-filled shrew

who has said some absolutely atrocious things about glory and angel

i don't care what you say about me - never have

but you owe them a huge apology

She will never see her own fault....."thank God I am not like those other sinners". I have been very surprised, though, at the things Bybee has said. I always expect it from the Granite's of the world, and maybe Bybee just isn't herself for some reason or other.

But, no, I don't want any apologies. This is a discussion board, and it's been very revealing.

ok doser · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
This is a discussion board, and it's been very revealing.

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glorydaz · Nov 22, 2015

bybee said:
Every post you make is deliberately calculated to cause strife. You carefully plant the seeds of derision and scorn into the path of decent people. You are so riddled with envy of better men and women that you work unceasingly to bring them down. You muddy the waters with your lame scenarios always meant to show that there are no victims, just stupid lascivious women trying to blame men for whatever happens.
You are a low life rube determined to proved that your gutter morals are justified and even admirable.
Just sitting on a bar stool waiting for some foolish female to enter.

musterion said:
Thank you for saying this because that right there is the only point I (and perhaps some others) have tried to make. In MOST cases, the woman was a completely unwilling victim who did NOTHING and chose NOTHING to make the rape more possible than it otherwise would have been. Such women are completely without fault, guilt, blame, deservedness, responsibility, call it whatever you want

But what you said above DOES happen: there ARE stupid, lascivious women who increase the odds (unintentionally but stupidly) of being raped, yet I was told I was wrong for just pointing that out. Thank you for saying it.

You should read that more carefully. She isn't saying what you are.

bybee · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
I don't think Doser deserves ALL THE BLAME on this one. The women and libs CHOSE to engage. He didn't force them. They act like they've been raped and Doser did the raping while I held them down. In truth, it wouldn't have mattered who brought it up. The women's movement has been so successful drilling this idea that women cannot share in any blame where rape is concerned that it's become impossible to undrill what's been so well drilled in.

Notice how Angel didn't over-react? If anyone has a reason to stand up for INNOCENT victims, it would be Angel. She lost more than rape victims have, and yet she was able to see clearly what Doser was saying. The reason it's gone on so long and has gotten so dirty, is the women, who are so emotionally invested, have gone to the mat on it. They have hurled the invectives and gone on personal attacks...and they won't even accept responsibility for doing that. I see they are still making excuses. It's been quite telling, and I'm glad Doser brought it to the fore. No use pretending, and no point in turning Doser into the only one with any GUILT. There is always enough of that to go around.

You continually whine out the same litany that those of us who oppose your buddy dozer don't believe that people are accountable for their own words and deeds. We have repeatedly stated that if a woman behaves foolishly she may suffer some horrid consequences.
And she shall suffer if a man has rape on his mind whether she does something foolish or not.
You sit on your high horse and hurl insults at everyone who disagrees with you.
Rape is a unique kind of crime wherein a person's body is violated. It does leave lifetime emotional scars.
I am of the mind set to help people who are victims regardless of how they came to be victims.
One of my daughters ran out between two parked cars and was hit by another car. She was nine years old and it could be said she behaved foolishly. Does that mean in your mind set that she didn't deserve medical treatment because she behaved foolishly? Or, perhaps, you believe I ought to have berated her for her foolishness as we sped to the hospital in the ambulance?

glorydaz · Nov 22, 2015

bybee said:
Why don't you leave? None of this divisiveness would have occurred had you not started it and fanned the flames? A4T doesn't need an apology from me. No matter what happens I respect her.
Gorydaze also doesn't need an apology from me because she is never wrong.

Bybee living in her own little world again. :nono:

No, you gals "fanned the flames" and refused to listen, even to what Angel and Ebenz said. I don't give a rip what you think or say about me. The fact is you gals started twisting and lying from the get go. Talk about us blaming the victim.....you're blaming Doser for your own FAULTS. "It's all his fault".... "I did nothing".....I was just shooting off my mouth, hurling nasty invectives, name calling. None of that is fanning the flames." All so some chippie can say she is doing nothing wrong when she's stipping and wiggling her behind for all she's worth. Congratulations, women, you've managed to keep those blindfolds well in place. :thumb:

ClimateSanity · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
She will never see her own fault....."thank God I am not like those other sinners". I have been very surprised, though, at the things Bybee has said. I always expect it from the Granite's of the world, and maybe Bybee just isn't herself for some reason or other.

But, no, I don't want any apologies. This is a discussion board, and it's been very revealing.

You got to roll with the punches to get to what's real---- David Lee Roth in "Jump" circa 1984.

rocketman · Nov 22, 2015

ok doser said:
anna started it, when she took exception to something I said on a thread about the morality of aborting pregnanccies due to rape

i explain it here: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4527049&postcount=12

i have been absolutely staggered by the responses of many here - i expected nothing but contention from bybee, anna, rusha, artie, zoo - the sycophants - but i have been amazed by others here

and i'm a little curious why you don't address bybee's starting threads attacking me for raising questions that others find difficult - 3 so far

and as far as "And he who sows discord among brothers", i don't consider bybee, anna, rusha, artie, zoo to be brothers (or sisters)

I am amazed that you cannot see what you have started here res, yet you continue to stir that turd making even more threads on this subject. I expect anna to act like the born again atheist she is, as I expect others on this board to bandwagon together to distort what others say to support their worldview or narrative, I do get that quite well. I think at some point you need to see that this is divisive & unproductive...just saying.

musterion · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
You should read that more carefully. She isn't saying what you are.

I just wanted to see it phrased correctly (more or less) by someone on the other side of the issue for once, even if inadvertently. Now I'm bye-bye.

Tambora · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
it's been very revealing.

It certainly has.

ok doser · Nov 22, 2015

bybee said:
Rape is a unique kind of crime...

no

i reject that

if feminists want to insist on equality, then rape is just another form of assault

the trauma rape victims experience is no worse than the PTSD seen in returning soldiers or children who grow up in chaotic environments

rocketman · Nov 22, 2015

Here we go again...Happy Thanksgiving all

Peace Out.

Tambora · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
No, you gals "fanned the flames" and refused to listen,

:down:

The fact is you gals started twisting and lying from the get go.

:down:

glorydaz · Nov 22, 2015

bybee said:
We have repeatedly stated that if a woman behaves foolishly she may suffer some horrid consequences.

Yes, you have ADMITTED IT.

Then this rant....this leap into outer space. This is where your FAULT lies. This is where the accusations and lies begin. NO ONE HAS EVER said all raped victims must bear some fault. It's been "society" or the few who made bad choices. And yes, of course it's there in your own little mind. No doubt you believe your own foolishness. But you don't need to lecture me about rape victims. I've spent over 20 years dealing with sexually abused CHILDREN. Who did nothing to deserve what happened to them. Keep whining, and keep twisting, and keep making up stupid surmises about what I think. You have no excuse.....

And she shall suffer if a man has rape on his mind whether she does something foolish or not.
You sit on your high horse and hurl insults at everyone who disagrees with you.
Rape is a unique kind of crime wherein a person's body is violated. It does leave lifetime emotional scars.
I am of the mind set to help people who are victims regardless of how they came to be victims.
One of my daughters ran out between two parked cars and was hit by another car. She was nine years old and it could be said she behaved foolishly. Does that mean in your mind set that she didn't deserve medical treatment because she behaved foolishly? Or, perhaps, you believe I ought to have berated her for her foolishness as we sped to the hospital in the ambulance?

ClimateSanity · Nov 22, 2015

rocketman said:
I am amazed that you cannot see what you have started here res, yet you continue to stir that turd making even more threads on this subject. I expect anna to act like the born again atheist she is, as I expect others on this board to bandwagon together to distort what others say to support their worldview or narrative, I do get that quite well. I think at some point you need to see that this is divisive & unproductive...just saying.

Divisiveness among Christians would be bad. Do you see that here? I see non Christians versus Doser, angel, GD, GO , Ebenz. Tambora is the odd one out and she has sided with non Christians on this one as a result of being a victim herself. They should have left her alone but Doser wasn't the only one to blame there.

kmoney · Nov 22, 2015

ok doser said:
first of all, that was assumed to be covered in the "warnings and risks" parts in the OP

Yes, lots of things have warnings and risks. Doesn't mean that you deserve what happens to you. There are risks to going outside in a storm. If you do and get struck by lightning, is that deserved?

secondly - are you kidding me?

kids get taught from ten grade health class on that unprotected sex is a sure path to getting STDs, including AIDS

and what drivers ed class were you in that didn't show you the horrific crash scenes that you could expect to be part of if you chose to drink and drive?

even if you know it's a strong possibility and choose to do it anyways?

Yes. Just because risks exist doesn't mean you deserve the consequences. There is a risk of falling when rock-climbing. Do those who fall deserve it?

why not?

What's your definition of 'deserve'?

Definition of DESERVE
transitive verb
: to be worthy of : merit <deserves another chance>
: to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital <have become recognized as they deserve — T. S. Eliot>
: to have earned because of some act or quality

I wouldn't use that language over a DUI driver having a crash or a promiscuous person getting an STD. Maybe you would.

I think part of what you're getting at is whether or not the person is worthy of sympathy. If someone drives drunk and crashes that person might not garner much sympathy, but I still wouldn't say they deserved to crash.

ClimateSanity · Nov 22, 2015

ok doser said:
no

i reject that

if feminists want to insist on equality, then rape is just another form of assault

the trauma rape victims experience is no worse than the PTSD seen in returning soldiers or children who grow up in chaotic environments

You hate monger

ok doser · Nov 22, 2015

glorydaz said:
Yes, you have ADMITTED IT.

Then this rant....this leap into outer space. This is where your FAULT lies. This is where the accusations and lies begin. NO ONE HAS EVER said all raped victims must bear some fault. It's been "society" or the few who made bad choices. And yes, of course it's there in your own little mind. No doubt you believe your own foolishness. But you don't need to lecture me about rape victims. I've spent over 20 years dealing with sexually abused CHILDREN. Who did nothing to deserve what happened to them. Keep whining, and keep twisting, and keep making up stupid surmises about what I think. You have no excuse.....

i see this with artie all the time

"you said A, so you must have meant B and that means C*"

* C=
1. you're a racist
2. you're a misogynist
3. you're a rapist apologizer

over and over and over and over....

Quetzal · Nov 22, 2015

ClimateSanity said:
Divisiveness among Christians would be bad. Do you see that here? I see non Christians versus Doser, angel, GD, GO , Ebenz. Tambora is the odd one out and she has sided with non Christians on this one as a result of being a victim herself. They should have left her alone but Doser wasn't the only one to blame there.

Your blind, unapologetic defense of doser has lost its novelty.

ClimateSanity · Nov 22, 2015

kmoney said:
Yes, lots of things have warnings and risks. Doesn't mean that you deserve what happens to you. There are risks to going outside in a storm. If you do and get struck by lightning, is that deserved?

Yes. Just because risks exist doesn't mean you deserve the consequences. There is a risk of falling when rock-climbing. Do those who fall deserve it?

What's your definition of 'deserve'?

Definition of DESERVE
transitive verb
: to be worthy of : merit <deserves another chance>
: to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital <have become recognized as they deserve — T. S. Eliot>
: to have earned because of some act or quality

I wouldn't use that language over a DUI driver having a crash or a promiscuous person getting an STD. Maybe you would.

I think part of what you're getting at is whether or not the person is worthy of sympathy. If someone drives drunk and crashes that person might not garner much sympathy, but I still wouldn't say they deserved to crash.

If you get struck by lightning after going out into a storm, you deserve some blame for it...

The DUI driver deserves to be responsible for his actions. Now, in your mind, what does taking responsibility for your actions entail?

On Deservedness

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