Dozer's Fixation on Rape!

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genuineoriginal

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Rape occurs for one reason and one reason only: rapists are evil.

Correct, and that should be the end of the conversation.

You could be right, if the conversation was about why a rapist rapes.

However, the conversation we are trying to have is: whether there are actions and attitudes in our culture that are creating or provoking rapists and whether everything we call rape is actually rape.
 

Rusha

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BINGO!
They are going to rape women no matter what they are wearing, and no matter what they are doing.

They are also devious enough to know that the best defense they can give is ... "it was her fault ... she incited me to rape her!"

Interestingly enough, I have listened to similar arguments from people in favor of hate crime laws (which I am against) because of the claim that certain words and phrases incites hate and makes them responsible for the offending person's crime.

Still yet, when it's a crime normally committed by men towards women, the woman made him do it!

Double standard much?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
That the fault of a criminal act falls on, surprise, the criminal. And that should be the end of it.

All his guilt and all his fault are his alone. What the rapist did is WRONG. No doubt about that. Hang him for all I care.

Guess what? Two people are involved in a rape and SOMETIMES what the woman has done is WRONG, too.

The guilt of one does not erase the guilt of the other.


It's wrong to rape.
It's wrong to steal.
It's wrong to kill.

It's wrong to strip at frat parties.
It's wrong to deliberately entice someone to do wrong.
It's wrong to tell someone they had no fault in what happens to them when they engage in bad behavior.
 

bybee

New member
You could be right, if the conversation was about why a rapist rapes.

However, the conversation we are trying to have is: whether there are actions and attitudes in our culture that are creating or provoking rapists and whether everything we call rape is actually rape.

This is such an outrageous conversation that I am really provoked!It appears to bring out deep seated misogyny in some posters including the author of these so many threads on rape? Dreaming up all kinds of hideous scenarios about rape to justify that rapists can't help themselves if they are provoked. Those of us who have been here for a while remember dozer's attempt to blame his wife because they engaged in physical confrontations. He actually bragged about it.
 

Quetzal

New member
You could be right, if the conversation was about why a rapist rapes.

However, the conversation we are trying to have is: whether there are actions and attitudes in our culture that are creating or provoking rapists and whether everything we call rape is actually rape.
The answer is no because rape has always existed. To say a rapist was "provoked" is an absurd concept.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
When someone offered their condolences to my daughter, she was quick to say she deserved everything she got.

good for her - we all make mistakes

owning up to them is what's at hand here


Many rape victims are children, in fact.

i was :idunno:

That the fault of a criminal act falls on, surprise, the criminal. And that should be the end of it.

insurance companies recognize the role negligence plays in the theft of a car, for example, and they'll deny a claim

that doesn't mean they call the cops and say "don't bother looking for the thief"

I am talking about actual rape victims.
Bringing in scenario after scenario of non-rape victims is going off course.

:doh:

society counts as rape many cases that should not be called rape

and those women see no reason to accept responsibility for their behavior
 

Tambora

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Dreaming up all kinds of hideous scenarios about rape
And many of the scenarios were not even about rape.


Those of us who have been here for a while remember dozer's attempt to blame his wife because they engaged in physical confrontations. He actually bragged about it.
I remember that.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
No matter what.

Exactly....no matter what. It's wrong to rape. I know my son would never even consider it...nor would your sons. Nor would most men. But there are evil people who walk among us. Both men and women. They don't follow the rules. They are evil, and this world is evil. We must walk carefully through it until we're taken out of it once and for all.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... rapists can't help themselves if they are provoked.

i'll wait while you find somebody saying that, other than yourself

Those of us who have been here for a while remember dozer's attempt to blame his wife because they engaged in physical confrontations. He actually bragged about it.

no bybee - you're lying

you need to stop lying about that

you're going to have to stand before God and answer for that lie.

reference: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3921491&postcount=282

To say a rapist was "provoked" is an absurd concept.

nobody is saying that except bybee
 
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Tambora

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society counts as rape many cases that should not be called rape
Society also counts as marriage many cases that should not be called marriage.
What society calls something should not be the determining factor for your definition.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Society also counts as marriage many cases that should not be called marriage.
What society calls something should not be the determining factor for your definition.

that's why i was very careful to provide examples of the kinds of "rape" i'm talking about
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I am talking about actual rape
I am assuming that this is the definition you are referring to?
_____
rape
to force (someone) to have sex with you by using violence or the threat of violence
_____​

That excludes many things we currently call rape in our society.
 

Rusha

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The answer is no because rape has always existed. To say a rapist was "provoked" is an absurd concept.

No matter what.

Agreed. Rape is one of those actions (like murder, child molestation, abortion, adultery, spousal abuse, etc.) where there is no middle ground.

It's always wrong. It is never the victim's fault.

Again, I find it highly interesting that in any other scenario (gun control, hate crimes, etc.), the consistent answer is that the CRIMINAL is solely responsible for his/her actions.

What exactly is *real* rape? Is that like "real car jacking"? Real murder? Real break in?
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
I was referring to a comment made by Genuine Original.

my bad

consider the following:


Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”:

“They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’”

Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.




would you agree that her behavior was provoking, especially the bolded part?
 

Quetzal

New member
my bad

consider the following:


Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”:

“They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’”

Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.




would you agree that her behavior was provoking, especially the bolded part?
No, he gave up that excuse when she told him no.
 
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