Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

Tambora

Tambora

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truthjourney said:
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Most of Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is their mediator. But the official teachings of the Watchtower say otherwise. The WT maintains that Jesus is NOT the personal mediator for the vast majority (99%) of mankind. Most Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even aware of this official teaching.
The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all.
"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6

In flagrant disregard, Watchtower says Jesus is mediator for just the 144,000 anointed.
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

Call to Watchtower in NYC. Jesus not mediator for JWs. Uploaded with permission.
Watchtower Representative says we don't have a mediator.


Transcribed below...

Caller:...that particular article
WT rep: Yes, I'm looking at it.

Caller: Ok, now the question I have based on #3 where it talks about who should partake of the bread and the wine. Now I'm gathering from this article, that the anointed folks and in this case I'm specifically talking about the governing body since they represent the 144K correct?
WT rep: Well yah in a sense, they're part of the faithful and discreet slave.

Caller: So but they're basically are the ones who are leading the congrea.. well leading the whole.. all of Jehovah's Witnesses is what I'm asking, or what I'm stating.
WT rep: Alright

Caller: So is that a true assessment?
WT rep: That they are leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Caller: Yes
WT rep: Ummm, well they're part of the faithful and discreet slave, you know the don't write everything that is ever written

Caller: But for all intent and purpo, I mean this is just a pre-question to the actual question that I'm going to ask. I just wanted to know for practical purposes if the governing body, which I believe is 7 members now?
WT rep: Yes

Caller: Um If they are indeed, they're basically making the decisions in leading all of Jehovah's Witnesses, that's my understanding.
WT rep: Ok

Caller: Basically, so what I'm gathering from this article is, um, it's somewhat disturbing to me, because it's making it seem like the anointed are, lets see how I want to phrase this, um, that the anointed are ac..in reality according to Jehovah's Witnesses the mediator, between you know the individual and God.
WT rep: No, Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K.

Caller: So, what I..so what this article is is implying then is that, the 144K or the governing body however you want to look at it are mediators between the great crowd. So Jesus is...
WT rep: They're kings and priests on their behalf..

Caller: So, so how does that square with 1 Tim 2:5 & 6? I'm not I'm not understanding this.
WT rep: That says that Jesus is the mediator, he's talking about between Jehovah and the 144K right?

Caller: Well that's not that's not the way I'm seeing it,
WT rep: Well?

Caller: If you read 1 Tim, hold on for a sec, let me actually bring that up, I know you use the New World Translation, um I'm actually looking um at another translation, but I don't think there's any particular difference in this, um let's see. I appreciate your assistance by the way, your time. 1 Tim 2:5 &6 it says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time". So I'm I'm seei I'm finding that this is violating 1 Tim 2:5 especially.

Caller: Cuz the Watchtower says thru them, meaning the anointed, the few, the 144K, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Thru Them, it means, so in other words, not thru Jesus
WT rep: uh

Caller: You see what I'm saying? It just seems to be an absolute violation of 1 Tim 2:5. I'm reading it, that the governing body is, well in a sense it is the governing body because, the 144K are not making, are not part of the writing department or you know making doctrinal decisions, it's basically done thru the 7 members of the governing body. So they, in effect, as I'm seeing it, are the mediators, for the great crowd. You see what I'm saying?
WT rep: Yeah, but it's not talking about now, it's talking about in the future.

Caller: I don't understand, what do you mean in the future?
WT rep: Well the blessings that will be conveyed thru the new covenant are in the future. It's not now, it will be (thru?) the priesthood, the kingship, of Jesus with the 144K.

Caller: Ok so what abo so what about now then, Jesus is not, your saying Jesus is is is not the mediator now? or
WT rep: Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the 144K

Caller: Ok so, who is the mediator for the other people, the great crowd?
WT rep: Well we pray thru Jesus, name, everybody does that?

Caller: Ok so Jesus is the mediator between the great crowd, right? I mean you're talking about the future, I'm talking about now. Who is the mediator between the great crowd, well that's the question, who is the mediator for the great crowd, is my question at this particular time, presently.
WT rep: I don't think we have one.

Caller: We don't have a mediator?
WT rep: Well, no, we we pray thru Jesus name but the only mediator-ship is in connection with Jehovah and the 144K.

Caller: Ok so if your saying it's it's the onl if the mediator-ship is only via the 144K then the great crowd has no mediator, either that or it's the governing body.
WT rep: Right we don't have a mediator.

Caller: So that still seems to be a violation of 1 tim 2: v 6 or v 5
WT rep: Yeah. a lot of people feel that we have the wrong understanding of that...we had an April 1, 1979 WT that discussed it if you....
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What the JWs do to scripture is atrocious.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Jesus is God…

John 18:6 When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

Everyone has to go through Jesus and it starts when he started his earthly ministry…

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No Preterism…

Romans 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Paul is not a hypocrite and there is no other gospel…

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

If Jesus is God, then he is the Father, because there is only one God and He is the Father…
Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

People go to heaven and there are people ensnared by Satan to keep people out…

Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut off the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is about receiving the Holy Spirit when one is saved, and it rebukes the Pentecostals and the Church of Christ denomination.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Prophecies and speaking in tongues have ceased…

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Infant baptism is not biblical…

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism is just symbolic and it can be done before or after or during being saved…

1 Peter 3:21 just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
All have a chance to be saved and no one is predestined…

1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

Faith alone is dead …

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Here is one scripture to do away with Mid Acts Dispensationalists….

Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
 
meshak

meshak

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Banned
NWL said:
To be a Christian by definition, is to follow Christ, not worship him. You worship what you do not know, we worship what we know, true worshippers ultimately worship the Father.
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thank you for your simple fact of Christians which has been distorted by most churches.

Yes, Christians are Jesus' followers.

However, I was told I am not their sister in Christ because I am not baptized in their organization.

that is simply wrong. I am following and dedicated to Jesus' teachings and serving Him for 18 years.

Only several of governing body is dictating the whole organization is not biblical.

Following God and Jesus is personal relationship. Jesus says all of us will be judged by according to what we have done. This is personal relationship.

I hope you listen to what I am saying if it makes sense.
 
meshak

meshak

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Banned
NWL said:
To be a Christian by definition, is to follow Christ, not worship him. You worship what you do not know, we worship what we know, true worshippers ultimately worship the Father.
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This is what I pmed to Rose your sister. But she did not give me any reply.

So I would like your response about my witnessing about the JWs:

Rose, It seems I offended you with my response to jurney's comments about JWs.

So many things happened with JW when I was interacting with them. Since they say they are the only ones who will be with God and if you don't join them, you will not.

I don't agree with that so I asked my best friend who was my best fried I thought, if I am her sister in Christ, she said no.

That was so hurtful. and I was deeply disappointed. I am devoting to follow Jesus and doing my best to be like Jesus and she knew it. I was just flabbergasted.

And one time, I was out with them Saturday morning, one elder approached me and pulled me out and says I am not allowed to go with them since I am not officially their member.

It was my second time I was with them on Saturday morning for evangelism. But it was one of circuit leader noticed I was with them, ordered to elder to pull me out.

I knew he did not like my questions I asked him. He remembered me for that and told them not to let me to go with them.

He did that in front of the whole people. It was humiliation. And no one seemed to had problem what they did to me.

They showed me about their hypocrisy clearly to me that time.

Jesus' servant, hitomi
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BTW, I have been defending JWs because I agree with their basics of Christianity and doctrines. They don't accept popular Catholicism and Calvinism and I agree with them.

blessings.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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NWL said:
To be a Christian by definition, is to follow Christ, not worship him. You worship what you do not know, we worship what we know, true worshippers ultimately worship the Father.
Click to expand...

Jesus is the Father come in the flesh as a man.

Tell me, when you see Jesus are you going to wonder when you get to see the Father? Are you ever going to wonder when will you get to see the Father?
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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God's Truth said:
Jesus is the Father come in the flesh as a man.

Tell me, when you see Jesus are you going to wonder when you get to see the Father? Are you ever going to wonder when will you get to see the Father?
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You are WRONG!!! Jesus is the Son.


Matthew 3:17 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.”


So much for your blasphemy.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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glorydaz said:
I did understand it, and I understand the one you posted as well. Neither is speaking of our being ONE in nature with God. Context is everything, GO.

Acts 4:32
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.​
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Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God, is of one heart and one soul with His Father: God.
That does not mean that Jesus is His Father, as the Trinity doctrine claims.
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
NWL said:
To be a Christian by definition, is to follow Christ, not worship him. You worship what you do not know, we worship what we know, true worshippers ultimately worship the Father.
Click to expand...

JW's, like yourself, are forever trying to redefine the original Biblical terms to meet your jaded Chuck Russell cult theology.

Doesn't work.

The term 'Christian', as used in scripture, lexically reads as....'The name was first given to the worshippers of Jesus by the Gentiles'. This was later perverted and used by anyone claiming to 'follow' Jesus Christ.

The scripture that you paraphrased, but cannot actually directly quote, for fear of exposing yourself, reads as thus...

Proper worship of God, according to God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
JW's, like yourself, are forever trying to redefine the original Biblical terms to meet your jaded Chuck Russell cult theology.

Doesn't work.

The term 'Christian', as used in scripture, lexically reads as....'The name was first given to the worshippers of Jesus by the Gentiles'. This was later perverted and used by anyone claiming to 'follow' Jesus Christ.

The scripture that you paraphrased, but cannot actually directly quote, for fear of exposing yourself, reads as thus...

Proper worship of God, according to God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

•Father
•Son (Truth)
•Spirit
Click to expand...
That isn't adding to the plain words of the text at all.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God, is of one heart and one soul with His Father: God.
That does not mean that Jesus is His Father, as the Trinity doctrine claims.
Click to expand...

The "Trinity doctrine" claims no such thing. It's too bad you folks who don't understand what the Trinity doctrine is would just admit you don't understand....instead of making false claims.
 
truthjourney

truthjourney

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Tambora said:
What the JWs do to scripture is atrocious.
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What the Governing Body has done to scripture is definitely atrocious. What they have done to thousands and thousands of JWs is cruel and even illegal in many cases. They have destroyed families. They have ruined people's lives and caused untold suffering to so many.
Especially the children who are not safe because of the Governing Body's two witness rule when it comes to child sexual abuse within the organization, that is their official policy. Children who are defenseless and innocent. Many of them very young. Their lives will never be the same. The hurt will never go away.
The Governing Body has vowed not to change the two witness rule that requires at least two witnesses to a child molestation and I ask you, what is the possibility of having additional witnesses to something like that to prove a case. Police are not called, it is kept quiet and hidden even from the rest of the JWs in the congregation who have children and the perpetrator is allowed to remain a part of that organization, allowed access to children at Kingdom Halls, allowed to go door to door and the public is not aware of the danger of that person to their children. The reason they have this two witness rule is to protect their image. That is more important to them than the safety of children in that organization.
 
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