CALVINISTS BELIEVE ONE MUST BE REGENERATED BEFORE THEY RECEIVE FAITH?

G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system. They believe that one must
be regenerated before receiving the faith to believe.

They believe that God chose certain people for eternal life
and the rest for eternal damnation. They believe that, without
God's intervention, man is too depraved to place his faith in
God and even if he wanted to (according to them he wouldn't/
couldn't do so anyway) he would be unable to.

Their god choose whom he would call the elect. The so called
elect have no choice because they were chosen before the
foundation of the world. On the other hand, the non-elect
do not have any choice either, because they're doomed to
spend eternity in Hell by the choice of their Calvinist god.

Calvinists do not believe in the free choice of mankind and
some Calvinists go so far as to say, God creates all sin,
debauchery, evil, etc. They believe their god is sovereign
and controls the entire world and all the evil that goes on.

Calvinists MUST change the character and intent of the God
of the Bible in order to make Him fit their belief system. They
misinterpret, misunderstand, and misrepresent the Scriptures.

According to the Calvinists, if their god chose you to be one of
the elect, you'll spend eternity with him. If he didn't choose you
then, you're eternally damned. Mans faith and choice has nothing
to do with salvation according to Calvinism. Because, their god
first, regenerates them, then he, gives them the faith to believe.
(in that order)

I believe Calvinism (a cult created by men that came out of the
Catholic church) Someone once said: "You can take Calvin out of
the Catholic church but, you can't take the Catholic Church out
of Calvin." He was called, "The Pope of Geneva." He was partly
to blame for the execution murders of over fifty human beings
during his reign.

Google Calvin the Pope of Geneva to find out more history about
this evil man.

In my opinion Calvinism is at war with the true Gospel and
is used by Satan as another false doctrine to sway people away
from God's Grace Gospel.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system. They believe that one must
be regenerated before receiving the faith to believe.

They believe that God chose certain people for eternal life
and the rest for eternal damnation. They believe that, without
God's intervention, man is too depraved to place his faith in
God and even if he wanted to (according to them he wouldn't/
couldn't do so anyway) he would be unable to.

Their god choose whom he would call the elect. The so called
elect have no choice because they were chosen before the
foundation of the world. On the other hand, the non-elect
do not have any choice either, because they're doomed to
spend eternity in Hell by the choice of their Calvinist god.

Calvinists do not believe in the free choice of mankind and
some Calvinists go so far as to say, God creates all sin,
debauchery, evil, etc. They believe their god is sovereign
and controls the entire world and all the evil that goes on.

Calvinists MUST change the character and intent of the God
of the Bible in order to make Him fit their belief system. They
misinterpret, misunderstand, and misrepresent the Scriptures.

According to the Calvinists, if their god chose you to be one of
the elect, you'll spend eternity with him. If he didn't choose you
then, you're eternally damned. Mans faith and choice has nothing
to do with salvation according to Calvinism. Because, their god
first, regenerates them, then he, gives them the faith to believe.
(in that order)

I believe Calvinism (a cult created by men that came out of the
Catholic church) Someone once said: "You can take Calvin out of
the Catholic church but, you can't take the Catholic Church out
of Calvin." He was called, "The Pope of Geneva." He was partly
to blame for the execution murders of over fifty human beings
during his reign.

Google Calvin the Pope of Geneva to find out more history about
this evil man.

In my opinion Calvinism is at war with the true Gospel and
is used by Satan as another false doctrine to sway people away
from God's Grace Gospel.
Click to expand...

Your 100% right. It is an evil doctrine that was conceived by the mind of a demon.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system. They believe that one must
be regenerated before receiving the faith to believe.
Click to expand...

Logically, not chronologically.
Not sure what you mean by "cult like" but most systems of thought, open theist, MAD, Patism could probably be so labeled.

They believe that God chose certain people for eternal life
and the rest for eternal damnation. They believe that, without
God's intervention, man is too depraved to place his faith in
God and even if he wanted to (according to them he wouldn't/
couldn't do so anyway) he would be unable to.
Click to expand...

Try to come up with a good Biblical anthropology that allows for unregenerate men to choose God.


Calvinists do not believe in the free choice of mankind and
some Calvinists go so far as to say, God creates all sin,
debauchery, evil, etc.
Click to expand...

Somewhat misleading. If you restrict the lack of freewill I would agree. We do believe that there is freewill, but not all possible choices can be made. A freewill challenge: choose to be a Calvinist for one week. Not just say you are, but really and truly be a Calvinist. If you have freewill, it should be no problem.

Calvinists MUST change the character and intent of the God
of the Bible in order to make Him fit their belief system. They
misinterpret, misunderstand, and misrepresent the Scriptures.
Click to expand...

Not so. But these charges could pretty much be leveled at any system one does not follow.

According to the Calvinists, if their god chose you to be one of
the elect, you'll spend eternity with him. If he didn't choose you
then, you're eternally damned. Mans faith and choice has nothing
to do with salvation according to Calvinism. Because, their god
first, regenerates them, then he, gives them the faith to believe.
(in that order)
Click to expand...

Ain't God great. Since we could not do so by ourselves.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system.
...
In my opinion Calvinism is at war with the true Gospel and
is used by Satan as another false doctrine to sway people away
from God's Grace Gospel.
Click to expand...
Let me try this, walk this Romans 10:11-18 read it once forward - a bit long, though it looks short with spoilers, it will take a couple of minutes( BDucky does a good short version of this above and I see a lot of love and concern in his posts, I'm feeling a need to just use scriptures for the most part):
Spoiler

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


Notice Paul gives a progression, in backwards order? Let me reverse the verses in 'ascending' order (the way it 'works' on a timeline). Romans 8 and some of 9 is added because Paul spells out the progression (some bolded to emphasize that progression and how we see it):

Spoiler

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[Remember 8:7&8, this was impossible until 'something' happened]
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: [next] and whom he called, them he also [then] justified: and whom he justified, them he also [next]glorified.
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[now the descending order of Roman 10:18-11 (backwards to show the progression)]
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed [paid heed to] the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [God had to orchestrate it]
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [God prepared, sent, and provided the means for them to call, see chapter8 above]
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


I don't know if it dispels some fears, but I hope it does. Even if you disagree with Romans, I pray it succeeds in explaining why we believe it biblical and why God must enable our response, as I believe chapter 8 spells out. At the least, I pray you find some incredibly love in the very very personal and catered way in which you heard the gospel message, as Romans 8-10 lays it out, and that you are encouraged that God specifically orchestrated your hearing Him, and His call on your life. I know the problem such has for the unbeliever, but this specific reason, I'm telling you right now, is why I am a Calvinist. I believe God made sure I and you would hear His gospel and that He pursued us. -Lon
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
Logically, not chronologically.
Not sure what you mean by "cult like" but most systems of thought, open theist, MAD, Patism could probably be so labeled.



Try to come up with a good Biblical anthropology that allows for unregenerate men to choose God.




Somewhat misleading. If you restrict the lack of freewill I would agree. We do believe that there is freewill, but not all possible choices can be made. A freewill challenge: choose to be a Calvinist for one week. Not just say you are, but really and truly be a Calvinist. If you have freewill, it should be no problem.



Not so. But these charges could pretty much be leveled at any system one does not follow.



Ain't God great. Since we could not do so by ourselves.
Click to expand...

If Calvinism is your particular belief system then, by all means don't
expect me or anybody else to talk you out of it. Just believe it. It's
not my cup of tea. I'm perfectly satisfied with trusting in the Grace
Gospel since about 1962. I'm a happy Dispensationilist, indwelt,
sealed and baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

If someone isn't fully persuaded about the Grace Gospel, I'm not
gonna be able to change their heart/mind. That's the work of the
Holy Spirit. I'm 150% certain of what I believe as the one and only
truth.

My fear of Hell and the Holy Spirit's leading brought me to a saving
knowledge of the Grace Message. I was 12 years old at the time.
 
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G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Lon said:
Let me try this, walk this Romans 10:11-18 read it once forward - a bit long, though it looks short with spoilers, it will take a couple of minutes( BDucky does a good short version of this above and I see a lot of love and concern in his posts, I'm feeling a need to just use scriptures for the most part):
Spoiler

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


Notice Paul gives a progression, in backwards order? Let me reverse the verses in 'ascending' order (the way it 'works' on a timeline). Romans 8 and some of 9 is added because Paul spells out the progression (some bolded to emphasize that progression and how we see it):

Spoiler

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[Remember 8:7&8, this was impossible until 'something' happened]
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: [next] and whom he called, them he also [then] justified: and whom he justified, them he also [next]glorified.
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[now the descending order of Roman 10:18-11 (backwards to show the progression)]
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed [paid heed to] the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [God had to orchestrate it]
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [God prepared, sent, and provided the means for them to call, see chapter8 above]
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


I don't know if it dispels some fears, but I hope it does. Even if you disagree with Romans, I pray it succeeds in explaining why we believe it biblical and why God must enable our response, as I believe chapter 8 spells out. At the least, I pray you find some incredibly love in the very very personal and catered way in which you heard the gospel message, as Romans 8-10 lays it out, and that you are encouraged that God specifically orchestrated your hearing Him, and His call on your life. I know the problem such has for the unbeliever, but this specific reason, I'm telling you right now, is why I am a Calvinist. I believe God made sure I and you would hear His gospel and that He pursued us. -Lon
Click to expand...

I appreciate your concern Lon. Back in 1962 my entire family heard
the Grace Gospel and became members of the Body of Christ. I
believe God desires to have all men receive Christ into their hearts,
minds, and souls. His Gospel is everywhere in this world today. Some
men hear the Gospel and reject it, and some receive Christ as their
Savior and are sealed, indwelt, and baptized (not by water) into the
Body of Christ. They also receive the righteousness of Christ.

I believe that all men have a free-will choice to place their faith in
whomever/whatever they so desire. I've read the entire Bible word
for word, name by name, cover to cover. I still continue reading and
studying it. I see copious amounts of free-will choice throughout
the entire Bible. I cannot look at the Bible and not see
free-will throughout. The Calvinist god is not the God I see in the
Bible. I don't see Him the same way as the average Calvinist.

God is capable of pure love, wrath, perfection, judgment, justice,
and righteousness. The Grace of God is a free gift to all men in this
Dispensation of Grace. It's open to anyone (Jew and Gentile) who
hear the Grace Message and place their entire faith in the Lord
Jesus Christ as their one and only Savior.

How did you become a child of God? Did you hear the Grace Gospel
and place your faith in Christ? Did you have an epiphany? Did you
have an experience or feeling? What's your personal Testimony?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I appreciate your concern Lon. Back in 1962 my entire family heard
the Grace Gospel and became members of the Body of Christ. I
believe God desires to have all men receive Christ into their hearts,
minds, and souls. His Gospel is everywhere in this world today. Some
men hear the Gospel and reject it, and some receive Christ as their
Savior and are sealed, indwelt, and baptized (not by water) into the
Body of Christ. They also receive the righteousness of Christ.

I believe that all men have a free-will choice to place their faith in
whomever/whatever they so desire. I've read the entire Bible word
for word, name by name, cover to cover. I still continue reading and
studying it. I see copious amounts of free-will choice throughout
the entire Bible. I cannot look at the Bible and not see
free-will throughout. The Calvinist god is not the God I see in the
Bible. I don't see Him the same way as the average Calvinist.

God is capable of pure love, wrath, perfection, judgment, justice,
and righteousness. The Grace of God is a free gift to all men in this
Dispensation of Grace. It's open to anyone (Jew and Gentile) who
hear the Grace Message and place their entire faith in the Lord
Jesus Christ as their one and only Savior.

How did you become a child of God? Did you hear the Grace Gospel
and place your faith in Christ? Did you have an epiphany? Did you
have an experience or feeling? What's your personal Testimony?
Click to expand...

Have the cows come home yet?
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system. They believe that one must
be regenerated before receiving the faith to believe.

They believe that God chose certain people for eternal life
and the rest for eternal damnation. They believe that, without
God's intervention, man is too depraved to place his faith in
God and even if he wanted to (according to them he wouldn't/
couldn't do so anyway) he would be unable to.

Their god choose whom he would call the elect. The so called
elect have no choice because they were chosen before the
foundation of the world. On the other hand, the non-elect
do not have any choice either, because they're doomed to
spend eternity in Hell by the choice of their Calvinist god.

Calvinists do not believe in the free choice of mankind and
some Calvinists go so far as to say, God creates all sin,
debauchery, evil, etc. They believe their god is sovereign
and controls the entire world and all the evil that goes on.

Calvinists MUST change the character and intent of the God
of the Bible in order to make Him fit their belief system. They
misinterpret, misunderstand, and misrepresent the Scriptures.

According to the Calvinists, if their god chose you to be one of
the elect, you'll spend eternity with him. If he didn't choose you
then, you're eternally damned. Mans faith and choice has nothing
to do with salvation according to Calvinism. Because, their god
first, regenerates them, then he, gives them the faith to believe.
(in that order)

I believe Calvinism (a cult created by men that came out of the
Catholic church) Someone once said: "You can take Calvin out of
the Catholic church but, you can't take the Catholic Church out
of Calvin." He was called, "The Pope of Geneva." He was partly
to blame for the execution murders of over fifty human beings
during his reign.

Google Calvin the Pope of Geneva to find out more history about
this evil man.

In my opinion Calvinism is at war with the true Gospel and
is used by Satan as another false doctrine to sway people away
from God's Grace Gospel.
Click to expand...

Your argument is with scripture... not with John Calvin.. as what he taught is plainly written in the Bible.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Who said that?
Click to expand...

Mr. Pate. A fallen angel to be sure, but an angel all the same. Or perhaps he was not being accurate in his description of Calvin. But this is a theology forum, and one should be using terms in theologically sound ways wherever possible to avoid misunderstandings.

Or standard English terms, for that matter. For instance, Calvin is often credited with being a mass murderer. Any cases of his actually killing anyone? Any cases of anyone dying without due process of law?
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I am totally certain that Calvinism is a false doctrine and
a cult like belief system. They believe that one must
be regenerated before receiving the faith to believe.

They believe that God chose certain people for eternal life
and the rest for eternal damnation. They believe that, without
God's intervention, man is too depraved to place his faith in
God and even if he wanted to (according to them he wouldn't/
couldn't do so anyway) he would be unable to.

Their god choose whom he would call the elect. The so called
elect have no choice because they were chosen before the
foundation of the world. On the other hand, the non-elect
do not have any choice either, because they're doomed to
spend eternity in Hell by the choice of their Calvinist god.

Calvinists do not believe in the free choice of mankind and
some Calvinists go so far as to say, God creates all sin,
debauchery, evil, etc. They believe their god is sovereign
and controls the entire world and all the evil that goes on.

Calvinists MUST change the character and intent of the God
of the Bible in order to make Him fit their belief system. They
misinterpret, misunderstand, and misrepresent the Scriptures.

According to the Calvinists, if their god chose you to be one of
the elect, you'll spend eternity with him. If he didn't choose you
then, you're eternally damned. Mans faith and choice has nothing
to do with salvation according to Calvinism. Because, their god
first, regenerates them, then he, gives them the faith to believe.
(in that order)

I believe Calvinism (a cult created by men that came out of the
Catholic church) Someone once said: "You can take Calvin out of
the Catholic church but, you can't take the Catholic Church out
of Calvin." He was called, "The Pope of Geneva." He was partly
to blame for the execution murders of over fifty human beings
during his reign.

Google Calvin the Pope of Geneva to find out more history about
this evil man.

In my opinion Calvinism is at war with the true Gospel and
is used by Satan as another false doctrine to sway people away
from God's Grace Gospel.
Click to expand...

Do you believe God has free will?

If yes, then is He free to choose whom He will? And if He is, does the free will of man have the ability to override HIS choice? But on the other hand, if no (that is, you don't believe God has free will in the same sense man does), then would you agree that the distinction ultimately comes down to free will simply implying "able to sin"? That is, God isn't free in the same sense because He can't go against His nature?

It seems to me that the rendering of free will as sacrosanct in man's salvation is a subtle way of holding on to one's desire to be his own ruler. Not that man doesn't have a free will, but that it speaks of self rather than of God. In actual fact, man is more free as a "slave to Christ".
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
CALVINISTS BELIEVE ONE MUST BE REGENERATED BEFORE THEY RECEIVE FAITH?
Click to expand...
Yes they do believe that.

A quick summary of Calvinism...

T: Totally Depraved humans can't hear or understand God, much less believe Him, because they're totally depraved, which Calvinists take to mean literally DEAD. This is demonstrably false.

U: Unconditional Election: God chose [elected] those He would save and chose not to save the rest entirely on His own, with no reference to what men would or wouldn't believe in the future. Demonstrably false.

L: The cross of Christ provided Atonement that is Limited only for those whom God had already elected to save. There's zero hope for everyone else. Demonstrably false.

I: The grace God extends to His elect is irresistible; they will be made alive at some point, thereby made to believe and "be saved." The unbelief of reprobates is equally irresistible. Both are demonstrably false.

P: The elect who have been regenerated will Persevere in faith, with no possibility of falling away. Redundant, given T and U. Not to be confused with the Pauline doctrine of the believer's unconditional eternal security in Christ.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
How does that happen?
Click to expand...

By allowing oneself to become entranced and taken captive by a unique mix of vain philosophy (the voluminous writings of Reformed thinkers, not just Calvin) mixed with the appealing doctrine of demons (TULIP + replacement theology). It's still basically just ultra-refined Catholicism by virtue of both being offshoots of Augustine, but the hook for Calvinism is that it makes many more biblical references that Catholic scholars tend to do (which rely largely on existing papist doctrine with the Bible as prooftext). And, as with Catholics, some things Calvinists teach are biblically true. But the errors and twistings of Reformed theology are much more subtle. For my money, that's why it's THE most dangerous false doctrinal system Satan ever came up with. Nothing even comes close; Mormonism, for example, is clumsy and transparently stupid by comparison. So is Catholicism, Orthodox, etc. Why? Because they all drifted that much further away from Scripture, and even (to varying degrees) deny its authority. The Reformed do not -- and that's the hook.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
musterion said:
By allowing oneself to become entranced and taken captive by a unique mix of vain philosophy (the voluminous writings of Reformed thinkers, not just Calvin) mixed with the appealing doctrine of demons (TULIP + replacement theology). It's still basically just ultra-refined Catholicism by virtue of both being offshoots of Augustine, but the hook for Calvinism is that it makes many more biblical references that Catholic scholars tend to do (which rely largely on existing papist doctrine with the Bible as prooftext). And, as with Catholics, some things Calvinists teach are biblically true. But the errors and twistings of Reformed theology are much more subtle. For my money, that's why it's THE most dangerous false doctrinal system Satan ever came up with. Nothing even comes close; Mormonism, for example, is clumsy and transparently stupid by comparison. So is Catholicism, Orthodox, etc. Why? Because they all drifted that much further away from Scripture, and even (to varying degrees) deny its authority. The Reformed do not -- and that's the hook.[/QUOTE

I agree.

The scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are the light, John 3:19-21.
Click to expand...
 
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