Muslim here. Ask me a question..

Greg Jennings

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And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, bind fast the fetters — then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom — until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah — He will never render their works vain.
[47:5]​

That's Mohammed talking to his men. He's talking about what they need to do then. It's not a blanket statement.

Just like when God said to go and slaughter the occupants of the Promised Land you know this is only applying to one situation, the same is true of this Surah
 

aikido7

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Banned
Wednesday Addams, the original poster of this topic needs to check in again and confront the questions s/he promised to confront and try to answer.

On TOL, Christians with their own personal theology of the faith are called to defend their beliefs every day.

The same should be done with any of the world’s faiths whose members join the conversation.
 

aikido7

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Impossible, have you not noticed they were banned?
You are absolutely correct.

My essential meaning was that if the poster is not allowed back into the topic, then all the comments about Islam can easily become a hate fest.

We have real questions on TOL and we should have available some legitimate, objective standard we can compare ourselves to. Without a Muslim scholar or a member of the Islamic faith, we will have no compass.
 

Greg Jennings

New member
Greg is bein willful lay ignorant
Am I? Let's compare. First, Mohammed:

And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, bind fast the fetters — then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom — until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah — He will never render their works vain.
[47:5]​

Now here is God:
Deuteronomy 20

"13When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."


Tell me how what God commands is better?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
That's Mohammed talking to his men. He's talking about what they need to do then. It's not a blanket statement.

It's an ordinance that is not revoked anywhere in the Qur'an.

God will resurrect the dead in due time, all lives are his not Allah's.
 

Greg Jennings

New member
It's an ordinance that is not revoked anywhere in the Qur'an.

God will resurrect the dead in due time, all lives are his not Allah's.

God and Allah are both references to the God of Abraham. They are two names for the same being. You probably already know this, but Allah is simply God in Arabic. Arab Christians pray to Allah and Jesus
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
God and Allah are both references to the God of Abraham. They are two names for the same being. You probably already know this, but Allah is simply God in Arabic. Arab Christians pray to Allah and Jesus

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6 NKJV)​
 

Greg Jennings

New member
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6 NKJV)​

"God" is English. He wasn't called God until the 1500s or so because English as we know it didn't exist. Allah is likely a word that Jesus used to refer to him.

We get "God" from the German "Gott" which originally came from the Aramaic (which Jesus spoke) "Alilah" and the Syriac "Allah." Jesus didn't speak English. He spoke Aramaic, Hebrew, and maybe Greek. He never used the word "God."
 

intojoy

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Banned
Am I? Let's compare. First, Mohammed:







Now here is God:

Deuteronomy 20



"13When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.



16However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17Completely destroya them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."





Tell me how what God commands is better?


Yes you ignored my response to your claim. The one about Cainaanites
 

Greg Jennings

New member
Yes you ignored my response to your claim. The one about Cainaanites

The one about the judges keeping the Gentiles from the Israelites? No I saw it, but that scenario only occurs after the conquest of Israel. My passage is God telling his people what to do with the people of the land (Israel) they are about to conquer. And it's not pretty
 

intojoy

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An Isis terrorist is running thru the desert to escape Putin.
He's half dead from lack of water when he comes upon a Jewish man selling ties.

"I hate Jews and would not talk to one but I will die without water" give me some water!

Jew: I haven't got any water, just these nice ties only $5 would you like one?

Isis: no, I don't want your filthy western garb I'm a Muslim and I hate Jews, I'd like to take your tie and strangle you with it! Don't you have any water?

Jew: I'll tell you what, to prove to you that I'm the better man even tho you would kill me, if you go that way a kilometer more, you'll find a restaurant with all the water you can drink, now go and God bless you.

So he travels another kilometer

A little while later, the Jewish man sees the Isis crawling on the sand dying of thirst crawling toward him with a five dollar bill in his hand

Isis: he raises his hand and waves the $5

"They won't let me in without a tie!"

Child Please!
 

patrick jane

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Banned
An Isis terrorist is running thru the desert to escape Putin.
He's half dead from lack of water when he comes upon a Jewish man selling ties.

"I hate Jews and would not talk to one but I will die without water" give me some water!

Jew: I haven't got any water, just these nice ties only $5 would you like one?

Isis: no, I don't want your filthy western garb I'm a Muslim and I hate Jews, I'd like to take your tie and strangle you with it! Don't you have any water?

Jew: I'll tell you what, to prove to you that I'm the better man even tho you would kill me, if you go that way a kilometer more, you'll find a restaurant with all the water you can drink, now go and God bless you.

So he travels another kilometer

A little while later, the Jewish man sees the Isis crawling on the sand dying of thirst crawling toward him with a five dollar bill in his hand

Isis: he raises his hand and waves the $5

"They won't let me in without a tie!"

Child Please!

guffaw, chortle, snort
 

brewmama

New member
1. I'm agnostic, as my profile to the left will tell you

And yes, my quotes specifically show that killing infidels is not what is meant by jihad in the Quran, and that the term has been hijacked by extremists in order to justify violence

No your quotes do not. How is it you know so well what the Quran means, and what it meant to the first Muslims?
 

Apple7

New member
God and Allah are both references to the God of Abraham. They are two names for the same being. You probably already know this, but Allah is simply God in Arabic. Arab Christians pray to Allah and Jesus


Any Jew or Christian that uses the term Allah when referring to the God of the Holy Bible, uses the term as a translation of the original Hebrew and Greek, only.
 

Apple7

New member
16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."

22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.

(Surah 19)



The Son brings the End Times



وقالوا اتخذ الرحمن ولدا لقد جئتم شيءا إدا تكاد السموت يتفطرن منه وتنشق الأرض وتخر الجبال هدا أن دعوا للرحمن ولدا وما ينبغي للرحمن أن يتخذ ولدا


Waqaloo ittakhatha alrrahmanu waladan laqad ji/tum shay-an iddan takadu alssamawatu yatafattarna minhu watanshaqqu al-ardu watakhirru aljibalu haddan an daAAaw lilrrahmani waladan Wama yanbaghee lilrrahmani an yattakhitha waladan

And they said: "The most merciful he has taken a Son. Truly You came, a disastrous thing.” The heavens are well nigh (to) burst from Him and the earth she cleaves asunder and then later the mountains fall down into pieces violently with noise. That they called to the most merciful a Son. And that it is convenient to the most merciful that he takes a Son. 19.88 – 92



Contrary to popular Islamic thinking, these ayahs actually proclaim Jesus Christ as the “convenient” Son by first quoting what they said “qaloo”, and then shifting to the singular destruction which Jesus Christ brings during the end times as He opens the Seven seals of Revelation.
 

Apple7

New member
The reasons I believe in a Unitarian God are:
1. a. This encompasses what I believe to be an All-Powerful, Perfectly Self-Sufficient, being to be. If we are thinking of a God being self-sufficient, we are talking epitomes here. The epitome of a self-sufficient God for example is one that does not operate in a multi-personhood. But He is instead self-sufficiently One.
When I looked up and prayed to God when I was young, without understanding God as described word for word in the Qur'an, it would appeal to my disposition to worship an All-Powerful singular Person. Go to your churches today and you'll see people can't consistently explain what the trinity is. They'd probably even get stumped if you asked them the wrong argument 'If Jesus is God and Jesus died on the cross, that means God died, how can God die?'. A lot of them would understand the trinity wrongly, in a modalist sense, also. It's just not practically and instinctively understood even after 2000 years let alone a random illiterate, uneducated, non-critical thinking, fruits marketseller in Galilee in the year 30 AD. But the Oneness of God is understandable to all.


Sura 53 exemplifies that the Koranic authors understood the Biblical Trinity…



علمه شديد القوى

AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa

53.5 He taught him, Lord of the mighty powers.


Summary of 53.5, as compared to The Biblical Book of Revelation:

• The opening chapter of Revelation informs us that John’s witness is “martureo”, i.e. “affirming that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration
• The teaching is done by Jesus Christ
• Jesus taught “him”
• Jesus taught John
• Jesus’ divine Revelation to John emanates from the Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible, as demonstrated by the greeting contained in the opening of Revelation chapter one
• This greeting, from the one God, is from:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Spirit


• 53.5 builds upon 53.4 by informing us of the divine singular source of John’s inspiration
• 53.5 begins by using the word “AAallamahu”, which means, “He taught him”
• All Koranic usages of the word “AAallamahu”, & “waAAallamahu” refer exclusively to “allah”
• Hence, we have yet another classic example of the “allah” of the Koran attempting to emulate the deity position occupied by Jesus Christ

1. Jesus taught him
2. “allah” taught him


• 53.5 continues to describe who taught John via the usage of “shadeedu alquwa”, which is rendered “Lord of the Mighty Powers”
• Interestingly, per the classic definition, “shadeedu” can be applied to a man
• Special note goes to “alquwa”, which is plural – not singular
• Observe what has just occurred in this sura:

1. The singular inspiration source, as defined in 53.4, is confirmed as “allah”
2. 53.5 describes “allah” as being Lord of the Might powers (plural)
3. “Allah” is singular, and yet plural


• Amazing as it is, the authors of the Koran have imputed the Triune deity of the Biblical God into their newly created god “allah”



Next…



ذو مرة فاستوى

Thoo mirratin faistawa

53.6 Lord of one action, so to be equal.



Summary of 53.6, as compared to The Biblical Book of Revelation:

• The opening chapter of Revelation repeatedly tells us of the Triune nature of the One God
• The God revealed in Revelation is Uniplural in nature
• Just as 53.5 describes a singular Lord with plural powers; 53.6 continues to describe this singular Lord via usage of the singular demonstrative pronoun “thoo”
• The overwhelming Koranic usage of “thoo” pertains to “allah”, and is best rendered “Lord of”, as it pertains to something in possession
• 53.6 tells us that the thing in possession is of one action (mirratin)
• This “one action” is juxtaposed to the copulative particle “fa”, which indicates either definite cause and effect, or a natural sequence of events
• The one-action cause (“mirratin”) has the effect of “istawa”, which is singular, in the perfect tense (completed action), and indicates “it was made, or became, symmetrical; congruous, or consistent in its several parts”
• All of this applies to the Lord (i.e. Jesus)
Further, the only other Koranic location of “faistawa” occurs in 48.29 and specifically refers to Jesus’ Parable of the Growing Seed
• Thus, we have further Koranic confirmation that the singular Lord actually consists of a plurality that functions with a singular action
 
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