Dozer's Fixation on Rape!

Status
Not open for further replies.

glorydaz

Well-known member
Further, if a woman feels any sort of blame on herself, I would be willing to wager that she is less likely to press charges.

You don't seem to give much credence to a person's conscience. If their conscience is convicting them of their own fault, perhaps it's also keeping them from crying rape when they shouldn't. How many men are accused of rape when it wasn't rape at all? We've seen several examples where that could very well be the case.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Allow me to speak for the other side. We do not deny that foolish or willfully dangerous behavior may cause us to suffer harm. I have stated that each person is responsible for his/her own behavior.'I take issue with the idea that putting oneself in an unsafe place will automatically result in rape because men cannot be expected to control themselves.
Nice double standard you have going there.
You believe women cannot be expected to control themselves, but you assume that the men are expected to control themselves.
I, on the other hand, expect both women and men to control themselves.

Rape is far more pervasive than the action of a female placing herself in a dangerous situation.
No, women place themselves in dangerous situations hundreds of times more often than they get raped.

Let us blame society for the lowering of morals.
You should consider whether there is a correlation between the lowering of morals in a society and the increase in immoral behavior (including rape) in that same society.

Yes punish the rapist but let all of us good Christians rub the victims nose in her own dirty linen.
Why do you assume this is an either/or situation?

It makes me sick and consider no longer calling myself a christian.
I am a follower of my Lord Jesus Christ and seek to emulate his loving, forgiving, healing behavior.
Forgiveness follows repentance, and if you keep telling women that they can engage in completely irresponsible behavior and blame someone else for anything that happens to them, then the women will never repent for their own behavior.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Then explain the following, the bolded part especially, all written and conceived off the back of a turnip truck by the "maestro" himself:

"Josephine is planning to go down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shout racial slurs at the protesters.

Josephine tells her plans to her friend Francine.

Francine says "Don't do it - they'll beat you up and rape you."

Josephine says "You're not the boss of me - I'll do what I want!"

Josephine goes down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shouts racial slurs at the protesters.

Josephine gets beaten and raped.

Those who beat and rape Josephine are arrested and charged.

Francine comes to visit Josephine in the hospital.

Josephine whines about how unfair it was that she got beaten and raped.

Francine says "What are you talking about? You deserved to get beaten and raped. I told you not to go down there. You chose to get beaten and raped. Next time don't be such a moron"
And his very words just before that:
"unless they were asking for it like Josephine:"
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4526113&postcount=2
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You are great at condemning people to Hell and giving phony patronizing calls to prayer but when it comes right down to being a loving, caring human being you are a failure.
May God have mercy on your soul for leading so many people astray.

:popcorn:
 

genuineoriginal

New member
And have you noticed that some of the men in the bar didn't participate in the rape?

Oh ... you mean that there are men who are capable of controlling themselves and not committing rape?

It is amazing how the two of you can understand that there are men who are capable of controlling themselves, but still believe that no woman is capable of controlling herself so she is not acting like a slut.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Doser doesn't.

I am not thinking he means it the way you take it. I understand his overall point. Some people wrongly use words like 'punishment' or 'deserve' wrongly when there is some irresponsibly on a persons part that deliberately put them in harms way.

Like saying "what an idiot to leave their car running with the keys in the ignition, unlocked, they deserve to have their car stolen because of their own stupidity"

Or like saying "well what did he think would happen after he called joe blows wife a hog, he should take his 'punishment' like a man (after being beaten half to death for insulting another mans wife).

I think we've all been guilty of using those terms flippantly and improperly.

The overall sentiment is not that they caused the crime, or that the one who acted in crime is any less guilty for what they chose to do, but that the victim has suffered as a result of their own foolish behavior. (which still doesnt lessen the guilt/responsibility on the part of the one who committed the crime in any way)

Hes even said as such outright, which is ignored.

He is also using specific examples for the context of what he is saying.

I agree its a bad choice of words though, because those words imply that the victim earned or wanted something to happen or is being given something they caused, when thats not the case.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Right. Because "asking for it" isn't the same as *deserving it*.
Apparently it is, because his scenario included:
You deserved to get beaten and raped.
You chose to get beaten and raped.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
My faith in Christ has not been swayed! My faith that some who call themselves christian's don't act very christian has been reinforced here on TOL! I read His word and pay attention to what He calls us to do. He forgives. He heals. He saves. He is here for us sinners. We are all sinners.
Yet your argument is that we are all sinners unless we were raped, because being raped automatically excuses a person from any wrongdoing.
 

Quincy

New member
yes, it is both ways, in some cases, and in no case does the crime victim bear responsibility for what the criminal chose to do. But for their own actions and loss suffered.

Heres an example, a drunk/stoned mother passed out, didn't lock the door and her 3 year old got outside because they were not supervised.

A kidnapper took the child when it was seen wandering alone.

So does the mother bear responsibility for the kidnap? no, but

Does she bear responsibility for the loss of her child? you bet.

If she had not been irresponsible and neglectful, her child would be at home.

get it?

She didnt cause the kidnapper to act, she didnt ask for it, but because of her own actions, she suffers and causes her own child to suffer.

And she would be guilty of negligence indeed, and prosecuted for it. A few months ago, where I live, a baby was found crawling down the street in the middle of a rain storm. The grandmother unknowingly left the screen door loose and it crawled out. She panicked, searched everywhere and even called to report the baby missing. Thankfully, a family driving down the road found the precious thing and took it to the authorities.

As much as she loved the little one, she was still negligent and as far as I know, she is going to jail. Of course she isn't a victim but she was negligent and carries the blame for it. If you blame a rape victim for making a bad choice, then you are saying that they were negligent to their own safety. She's an accomplice by default if she carries any blame in this. Are you ok with punishing rape victims as well as the rapists? If not, then at best the victim just made a bad choice but IS NOT to blame for the decision to perform the rape itself and should not be blamed for her choice.

Another way to look at it. If I live in an area where car thefts are common, should I not import an exotic sports car because of it? Should my rights be limited by what the criminals are doing? No, I have every right to import that car and enjoy what I've worked hard for. A woman has the right to party and dress how she wants without having to live in fear of what some violent criminal may do to her for it.

Rapists are just terrorists under a different name. If a woman has to live her life in fear of them in order to not be blamed for what they might do, or in order to not be persecuted for her actions, then she herself is giving into terrorists. We cannot blame victims for their choices, at all and if we do that only makes them an accomplice.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Apparently it is, because his scenario included:
You deserved to get beaten and raped.
You chose to get beaten and raped
.

Oh ... so all the claims of "he never said deserved" were just that? Claims?

It really is rather pathetic for anyone to try to spin his words to mean anything other than what was said:

You deserved to get beaten and raped.
You chose to get beaten and raped


Also, when words such as "whore" are brandied about to describe these victims, it pretty much shows the posters true heart and character:

An intense disdain for women.
 

Quetzal

New member
You don't seem to give much credence to a person's conscience. If their conscience is convicting them of their own fault, perhaps it's also keeping them from crying rape when they shouldn't. How many men are accused of rape when it wasn't rape at all? We've seen several examples where that could very well be the case.
For my comments so far and those going forward, they are made under the assumption we are discussing a legitimate case of rape.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Bottomline, more's been said about women bearing the burden for making sure they don't do something--anything--who knows what, exactly--to provoke their sexual assault than anything else.
One group keeps trying to build that strawman argument.

The other group keeps saying that rapists are guilty for the rape and must be punished for it, and women are responsible for any behavior they do that put them at risk, such as getting drunk and acting like a slut, and must change their behavior.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I am not thinking he means it the way you take it. I understand his overall point. Some people wrongly use words like 'punishment' or 'deserve' wrongly when there is some irresponsibly on a persons part that deliberately put them in harms way.

Like saying "what an idiot to leave their car running with the keys in the ignition, unlocked, they deserve to have their car stolen because of their own stupidity"

Or like saying "well what did he think would happen after he called joe blows wife a hog, he should take his 'punishment' like a man (after being beaten half to death for insulting another mans wife).

I think we've all been guilty of using those terms flippantly and improperly.

The overall sentiment is not that they caused the crime, or that the one who acted in crime is any less guilty for what they chose to do, but that the victim has suffered as a result of their own foolish behavior. (which still doesnt lessen the guilt/responsibility on the part of the one who committed the crime in any way)

Hes even said as such outright, which is ignored.

He is also using specific examples for the context of what he is saying.

I agree its a bad choice of words though, because those words imply that the victim earned or wanted something to happen or is being given something they caused, when thats not the case.
Take a gander.

Where doser says:
"unless they were asking for it like Josephine"​

And then gives the Josephine scenario which includes:

You deserved to get beaten and raped.
You chose to get beaten and raped.​


Link to post where he says that:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4526113&postcount=2
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
We cannot blame victims for their choices, at all and if we do that only makes then an accomplice.

We can and should blame people for their totally irresponsible behavior that puts them in harms way, and no it doesnt make them an accomplice. Being guilty of recklessness is NOT the same as being an accomplice to a crime.


We shouldn't warn children not to touch a hot stove should we, or to stay out of the street.

Why do you think women are given instructions at colleges these days to keep them from becoming a crime victim?

Careless, irresponsible behavior increases the likelihood of becoming a crime victim, and even when its happening, it does not EVER lessen the responsibility or guilt of the criminal.

I am shocked that so many adults miss this point.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
In the same way that carjackings, assaults, acts of terrorism, random shootings and snipers, robberies ... are ALL crimes committed by criminals.
You seem to assume that all rapes are random and have absolutely nothing to do with either the rapist or the victim.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top