out of the mouths of.. ATHEISTS!!!!!!!!!

republicanchick said:

Everything Reagan did has been unraveling before our eyes, the worst of it being.. morals... family values


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Not everything. We still have no fault divorce.[emoji12]

You and she are right. We get the president we deserve.

More than one person has said that the U.S. Constitution was designed for a Christian people,some said good people, and that it would fail if the citizens ever stopped being Christian or good.

Our founding documents say that rights come from God. In an increasingly secular/atheistic country where do rights come from? Without God, you have no rights.

Good thread topic.

Neopatriarch said:

Our founding documents say that rights come from God.

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Or at least white male rights do. They didn't believe much in rights for anyone else, did they?

In an increasingly secular/atheistic country where do rights come from?

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From human contracts and agreements. But mostly from the general good of society. Rights make survival easier. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

Without God, you have no rights.

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Without what God?

shagster01 said:

Or at least white male rights do. They didn't believe much in rights for anyone else, did they?

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of course your using a broad brush, while ignoring both the culture they inherited, and the advances made because of these same concepts. Or how in many ways we led the way in defending civil rights around the world.

shagster01 said:

From human contracts and agreements. But mostly from the general good of society. Rights make survival easier. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

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Those are not rights. You may have permission to engage in contacting and agreements, but the fact you have to have permission shows they are not rights.

shagster01 said:

Without what God?

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there is only one God.

republicanchick said:

Ok, it's true I don't know for sure if this person is STILL an atheist, but let's assume she is b/c as of a couple years ago, she was. She wrote a book that defended a lot of conservative talking points. Her name is Kupp (or Cupp?) but I can't recall her first name

She was on CNN some time ago

and she said something that rather blew me away... (I who am rarely blown away [seen too much for that...])

She said that the USA will get the president we deserve


You know, even though none of the other persons on that panel (about 4?) commented or answered her comment... what she said was very profound..

and the content is depressing... b/c she is right..

Ever since Clinton, this country has gone down hill.. Everything Reagan did has been unraveling before our eyes, the worst of it being.. morals... family values

And the current Admin makes Clinton look like... if not Reagan... George W



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S.E. Cupp by chance? Yes she's an atheist.

I'm conservative, but I'm not ignorant of a Democrat's accomplishments. The U.S. economy flourished under Bill Clinton like it hasn't since. Was he morally off-kilter? Yeah. But don't act like he was a bad president because his personal life was imperfect. You don't have to be a good person to be a good president

America started going down the drain when Reagan was president .
His supply side, trickle down economics have been catastrophic for America , and we have yet to recover from them.
Reagan began the destruction of the middle class in America with his disastrous social and economic policies and increased poverty enormously in America .
Prosperity does NOT "trickle down". It never has and it never will. Reagan greatly weakened America's already weak and inadequate social safety net for people ,all in the name of "personal responsibility " and "self reliance".
He heard phony stories about welfare queens growing fabulously rich by cheating the government and made disastrous cuts in aid for the poor and unemployed .
His supposed "rescuing" of America was nothing but smoke and mirrors .

Neopatriarch said:

Not everything. We still have no fault divorce.[emoji12]

You and she are right. We get the president we deserve.

More than one person has said that the U.S. Constitution was designed for a Christian people,some said good people, and that it would fail if the citizens ever stopped being Christian or good.

Our founding documents say that rights come from God. In an increasingly secular/atheistic country where do rights come from? Without God, you have no rights.

Good thread topic.

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You put it in simplistic terms (that last sentence) but simplicity should not be seen as... a bad thing

on the contrary, often people complicate things to the point of... obscuring simple truths available to any who have half a brain...




+

Greg Jennings said:

S.E. Cupp by chance? Yes she's an atheist.

I'm conservative, but I'm not ignorant of a Democrat's accomplishments. The U.S. economy flourished under Bill Clinton like it hasn't since. Was he morally off-kilter? Yeah. But don't act like he was a bad president because his personal life was imperfect. You don't have to be a good person to be a good president

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he was a bad president. And i'm sick of people even those on the Right sometimes... acting like he was.. whatever... not so bad... makes me sick

The only reason the economy did well under him was b/c the House and Senate were mostly R

He had no choice but to work w/ the Rs or... be like our current obstructionist-in-chief..



___

republicanchick said:

he was a bad president. And i'm sick of people even those on the Right sometimes... acting like he was.. whatever... not so bad... makes me sick

The only reason the economy did well under him was b/c the House and Senate were mostly R

He had no choice but to work w/ the Rs or... be like our current obstructionist-in-chief..



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And he did work with them, and worked very well. That's the mark of a good president: someone who can reach across the aisle and keep the country moving forward. Wouldn't you say?

If you want to say Obama is a bad president (I think he has been) for not cooperating with a majority house and senate from the other party, then you have to give Bill credit for doing a great job with the same situation. You can't have it both ways

shagster01 said:

Or at least white male rights do. They didn't believe much in rights for anyone else, did they?



From human contracts and agreements. But mostly from the general good of society. Rights make survival easier. But that is a discussion for a different thread.



Without what God?

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The One and Only. You know Him, you're just doin' ur own thang for a bit - :chuckle:

republicanchick said:

You put it in simplistic terms (that last sentence) but simplicity should not be seen as... a bad thing

on the contrary, often people complicate things to the point of... obscuring simple truths available to any who have half a brain...




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You never complicate things.

Wrong .The founding fathers believed in religious freedom for all Americans . They never insisted that every American be a believing Christian who attended church every week .
When America began, there were no Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or followers of other Americans . But the founders would have been 100 % for the right of every America to follow any religion - or not to follow any religion at all if they chose .
When a settlement of Jews came to America for the first time, George Washington welcomed them and declared that America" would
give no sanction to bigotry "
This was a radically liberal thing to do, as Jews were rejected and scapegoated all over the world then, and continued to be .
Thomas Jefferson was a deist and not a believing Christian at all .
So were some of the other founders . Others were at best lukewarm Christians, such as George Washington .
They never intended America to be a nation where everyone was required to be a Christian, nor did they believe that one had to be a Christian to be moral and virtuous .
They never imagined an America which would be as religiously diverse as it is today , but they would have supported the rights of every Non-Christian in America if they could come back today .

Oops. Should read "followers of other RELIGIONS ", not followers of other Americans. My bad .

Let's let Mr. Jefferson speak for himself.


Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

FREE TRADE CRIPPLED CANADA !!!!!!

Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication

Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

republicanchick said:

he was a bad president. And i'm sick of people even those on the Right sometimes... acting like he was.. whatever... not so bad... makes me sick

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Maybe you need to use more of your brain?

The only reason the economy did well under him was b/c the House and Senate were mostly R

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lain: Now that's using half a brain. :thumb:

He had no choice but to work w/ the Rs or... be like our current obstructionist-in-chief..

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I'm thinking you're using the wrong half. lain: The politics of opposition and "No" in lieu of engagement was a right wing tactic. They've by and large admitted that's what they spent their political capital on during the first administration.

Essentially the country needs another economic growth period. Now some people are suggesting we have to give up on taxing corporations to get that done. Those people are mostly shills for corporations, or fools.

What we need to do is protect our industry the way most countries in better shape do and make it costlier for companies trying to profit within our borders while moving labor and ownership out of our country. Support businesses that put America and its labor force first and learn from a few companies that do.

Neopatriarch said:

of course your using a broad brush, while ignoring both the culture they inherited, and the advances made because of these same concepts. Or how in many ways we led the way in defending civil rights around the world.

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But not how the Founding Fathers pictured it. We took their flaws and progressed them. They were not right at the time.

Those are not rights. You may have permission to engage in contacting and agreements, but the fact you have to have permission shows they are not rights.

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The only real right is survival of the fittest. You want rights? Be the fittest.

there is only one God.

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. . . Is what every religion says about their god.

"No human society has ever been able to maintain both order and freedom, both cohesiveness and liberty apart from the moral precepts of the Christian Religion. Should our Republic ever forget this fundamental precept of governance, we will then, be surely doomed."

John Jay
1st U.S. Chief Justice

republicanchick said:

typical liberal LIE

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An all too typical hard right wing delusion, that everyone to your left is a liberal. :chuckle:

A snippet from a book about a gathering of Republican movers and shakers on the night of the President's inauguration that included: Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.) along with Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz.

The purpose of that conclave?

and then turn around and BLAME the Rs for being obstructionist...

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Note. It's a bit different. Blame? They're politicians looking after party first. That, sadly, is the way it's done in D.C.

They aren't counting on many Americans truly paying attention..

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Rather, I suppose you're not counting on many on the fringe right being particularly well read, which on the whole seems reasonable enough.