Understanding the Gospel Thru the Book of Life

glorydaz

Well-known member
Has it ever occurred to you that you need to read the context of the passage to actually understand what it means?

The "measure of faith" spoken of in verse 3 is NOT talking to about faith in the gospel. It's about differing gifts that God gives to the members of His body.

When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again,

No, don't say again until you deal with what Right Divider gave you. One of your proofs has just hit the dirt, and it's a big one. Do you disagree? Instead of plugging ahead.....step back and see what that does to your theory.
 

Right Divider

Body part
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?

Again, the fact that people are able to believe (or able to exercise faith) is proof enough they are already spiritually alive even before they heard the preacher's call. How? All because of what God has done for us all THROUGH Christ our Lord and Savior. That is why all our names were written in the Book of Life. But many had been, and many will be, blotted out from it. Only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life (Rev 3:5).
What does ANY of that have to do with the POST that you are REPLYING to?

You just enjoy talking to yourself.
 
Last edited:

Samie

New member
Repeating the same things won't convince anyone. What do you mean by "attached to Christ"? I know of our being IN HIM and His Spirit being IN US, but what are you talking about?
To be attached to Christ is to be part of His Body, as I have earlier explained. Did you not read it?

The Lord Jesus Christ overcame the world. John 16:33KJV So what is your idea of what we are to overcome? What measurement do you use?
It's God Who decides who the overcomers are, not me. It's God Who measures people, not me. It's Scriptures that say we need to overcome evil with good, not simply me (Rom 12:21).

Those IN HIM are overcomers because they are IN THE BELOVED.
We are His followers, being His sheep. We need to follow His example. It's Scriptures that admonish us to overcome evil with good, not me. Have you read Rom 12:21?

Those who were "dead in sins" are quickened together with Christ (when they believe). Eph. 2:5KJV Those who believe are created IN HIM. Eph. 2:10KJV As new creatures. 2 Corinthians 5:17KJV We are hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:3KJV
Scriptures are correct by themselves. What you added - (when they believe) - poisons the whole thing. How can the "dead" believe? Can you explain this?

I'm not sure how much of scripture you're willing to ignore in order to stand on a verse in Revelation, but you are forcing something that is not there.
Are the verses in Revelation against other verses of Scriptures you tell me I stand on one verse in Rev and ignore the others? How were you able to say that? Show me. Not just tell me. It's you who are ignoring the Scriptures I quoted. You did not even take up the issue I presented.

Try making your theory fit with the verses here.
Show me how they don't fit. You can't show because you know they fit.

Maybe you're trying to say something you haven't made clear to me, yet, but until you address the above, I, for one, see no proof of what you claim.
It's clear that you just simply ignore the issue I presented.

Again, here's the issue you don't want to address:
When a preacher tells people "Believe to be saved", the preacher thinks the people he is addressing are not yet members of the Body of Christ. And if not yet a member of the Body of Christ, one is not yet attached to Christ. And if one is not yet attached to Christ, he is spiritually dead because Christ is our Life (Col 3:4). So how can he "believe" or "exercise faith" if he is yet spiritually dead?
Try addressing that, please. Or object to my earlier posts in this thread by showing me how I am in error in what I posted.
 

Samie

New member
What does ANY of that have to do with the POST that you are REPLYING to?
Did you even notice that her post did not even address the original issue I raised up? So I need to repeat the issue.

You just enjoy talking to yourself.
It seems better that way especially if the one I would be talking to is like you, brother.

You act as one who always raises his hand in a meeting and says "I second the motion".
 

Samie

New member
Then what does it mean to be justified by faith if we all have that "measure of faith", why are not all men justified?
Have you read this verse before?
NAS Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Why is there the faith of Jesus Christ and our faith in Christ? Why do we pray the Lord will increase our faith?
That simply means we were given faith to exercise. As muscles are developed by exercise, so faith need to be exercised likewise.

And when you speak of overcomers, what does John mean here...that it is our faith that is the victory?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Our faith is the faith of the Son of God which God gave to every man (Rom 12:3).
 

Right Divider

Body part
Did you even notice that her post did not even address the original issue I raised up? So I need to repeat the issue.
Did you notice that I DID address something that YOU wrote and that YOUR reply had NOTHING to do with what I wrote?

If you're going to reply to a post, reply to THE POST.

It seems better that way especially if the one I would be talking to is like you, brother.

You act as one who always raises his hand in a meeting and says "I second the motion".
A very uninformed opinion on your part.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Have you read this verse before?

That simply means we were given faith to exercise. As muscles are developed by exercise, so faith need to be exercised likewise.

Our faith is the faith of the Son of God which God gave to every man (Rom 12:3).

Why do you quote from one translation and then a different one the next time? Is it because you're picking those that come closer to saying what you want them to say?

I have read the verse you quote, but I'm not sure what you think that verse is saying.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
To be attached to Christ is to be part of His Body, as I have earlier explained. Did you not read it?

Yes, I did read it, but, to be honest, you are not very good at making yourself understood by the average reader. I'm about average, and I can't make heads or trails out of what you say. If you want to talk about what it means to be spiritually dead, then you need to focus on that....and support it or refute it. Otherwise you build a house and none can feel safe entering because the foundation appears to be shaky.

It's God Who decides who the overcomers are, not me. It's God Who measures people, not me. It's Scriptures that say we need to overcome evil with good, not simply me (Rom 12:21).

That we should overcome evil with good has NOTHING to do with our salvation, and that's what you're attempting to prove.

Eph. 2 proves you wrong. We are saved by grace through faith...not of works....not of ourselves lest any should boast. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Salvation is a gift and you're trying to claim it's something we must earn by our overcoming sin. Our Lord overcame sin and death by HIS work. A work we certainly are unable to do....try as we might. If we could do so, there would have been no reason for our Lord to come and do it for us.




Scriptures are correct by themselves. What you added - (when they believe) - poisons the whole thing. How can the "dead" believe? Can you explain this?

Are you a Calvinist? It looks to me like you're trying to get around the mistaken idea that man is so dead he cannot hear, so you're claiming we are saved before we "believe unto righteousness".

Are the verses in Revelation against other verses of Scriptures you tell me I stand on one verse in Rev and ignore the others? How were you able to say that? Show me. Not just tell me. It's you who are ignoring the Scriptures I quoted. You did not even take up the issue I presented.

Show me how they don't fit. You can't show because you know they fit.

I did show you....there are books and there is another book. You ignored part of your own scripture. I can't make you read correctly. Clear up your jumbled post, and then maybe I can address it how you would find acceptable.
 

Samie

New member
Why do you quote from one translation and then a different one the next time? Is it because you're picking those that come closer to saying what you want them to say?
You can do the same, Sis. Quote from whatever translation, you want. I won't object.

I have read the verse you quote, but I'm not sure what you think that verse is saying.
I think the verse is against what you are saying. You said not all were justified. I showed you a verse that says all men were.

So what translation do you want us to use?
 

Samie

New member
Yes, I did read it, but, to be honest, you are not very good at making yourself understood by the average reader. I'm about average, and I can't make heads or trails out of what you say. If you want to talk about what it means to be spiritually dead, then you need to focus on that....and support it or refute it. Otherwise you build a house and none can feel safe entering because the foundation appears to be shaky.
To be spiritually dead is to be dead to spiritual things, unable to do spiritually good acts like believing, repenting, etc.

That we should overcome evil with good has NOTHING to do with our salvation, and that's what you're attempting to prove.
Then you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Again, people are born written in the Book of Life and are therefore heaven-bound UNTIL deleted from it. Our being written in the Book of Life is because of what God through Christ has done for us on the cross. Our overcoming evil with good is what the Head wants His Body parts to do.

Eph. 2 proves you wrong. We are saved by grace through faith...not of works....not of ourselves lest any should boast.
And that's what I'm telling you by saying that people are born written in the Book of Life because of what God through Christ has done for us. It's because of grace that our names were written there. How can it be by our works when we were born with our names already there?

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Salvation is a gift . . .
That's why I keep on saying that we were born with our names already in the Book of Life. How can that be not a gift. But you teach that people can not be written there UNLESS he first believes. It's you who seem to be teaching salvation by works: Believe first to be written in the Book of Life.
. . . and you're trying to claim it's something we must earn by our overcoming sin.
Wrong. With our names in the book of life, we are already heaven-bound. That we are born heaven-bound, is what I teach. It's you who teach that unless man believes, he cannot be heaven-bound. And that's a works-based salvation.

Our Lord overcame sin and death by HIS work. A work we certainly are unable to do....try as we might. If we could do so, there would have been no reason for our Lord to come and do it for us.
And He is our Shepherd; we are His sheep. And being His sheep, we are enjoined by our Shepherd to follow Him Who fashioned us into His Body on the cross. And attached to Him Who is our Strength for overcoming, we have His Power to overcome evil with good.

Are you a Calvinist?
No, I'm not.

It looks to me like you're trying to get around the mistaken idea that man is so dead he cannot hear, so you're claiming we are saved before we "believe unto righteousness".
So you believe the dead can hear? You believe the dead can believe? That's why I am asking you to explain how the dead can hear and believe.

Again, there are 3 tenses of salvation: past, present, future. God has saved us, is saving us, and will yet save us. Read my earlier posts in page 1 of this thread, so you can better understand the gospel.

I did show you....there are books and there is another book. You ignored part of your own scripture. I can't make you read correctly. Clear up your jumbled post, and then maybe I can address it how you would find acceptable.
It's in the Book of Life where names are written. And when one's name is not found there, he's destination is the lake of fire. Do you believe this?
 
Top