ECT 5 of the more obvious passages about losing salvation

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
andyc said:
Yeah its true.
Although we disagree about OSAS, I agree that without the assurance of eternal security, faith will fluctuate based on performance. And that is certainly a slippery slope to shipwreck.

Paul makes it very clear in Romans 5, that there is nothing we did that makes us sinners, we were born sinners in Adam. Likewise there is nothing we did to make us righteous, we are spiritually born righteous in Christ. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord SHALL NOT impute sin.
Although there are negatives when we sin, loss of salvation is not one of them.
Click to expand...

I'm confused, do you say you now live by your faith in the Son of God? Is that why you disagree with OSAS? If so, how can you have assurance of salvation, and not have it be based on your righteousness....if your faith might waver? :think:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​
 
andyc

andyc

New member
glorydaz said:
I'm confused, do you say you now live by your faith in the Son of God? Is that why you disagree with OSAS? If so, how can you have assurance of salvation, and not have it be based on your righteousness....if your faith might waver? :think:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​
Click to expand...

Because faith is the anchor. Our faith.
Think of faith as the rope that holds a boat to the shore. As long as the boat is tied, it can never be lost. The only way it can be lost is if we untie it.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
andyc said:
... without the assurance of eternal security, faith will fluctuate based on performance.
... Although there are negatives when we sin, loss of salvation is not one of them.
Click to expand...
Maybe that's why the Pauline ex-Jew kept talking about the hope of salvation.

The whole, entire, complete, etc. NT is about sin ...
and the consequences of habitual unrepentant sinning,
which is absolutely nothing less than eternal death!
Who wants to see the verses for the 100th time?

Now, of course, this believing sinner can repent, e.g. on his deathbed,
and who knows, maybe the Lord will accept him.

But, today's Laodicean church doesn't see it (or just doesn't want to see it).

Now, da females ... dat's a whole udder ting altogether!
IMO, that's why they're told by Paul to shut up and listen to their husbands.
Female emotions just cannot handle the possibility of losing their salvation.
That's one reason why they are viewed as spiritual morons.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
ZacharyB said:
Maybe that's why the Pauline ex-Jew kept talking about the hope of salvation.

The whole, entire, complete, etc. NT is about sin ...
and the consequences of habitual unrepentant sinning,
which is absolutely nothing less than eternal death!

Now, of course, this believing sinner can repent, e.g. on his deathbed,
and who knows, maybe the Lord will accept him.

But, today's Laodicean church doesn't see it (or just doesn't want to see it).

Now, da females ... dat's a whole udder ting altogether!
IMO, that's why they're told by Paul to shut up and listen to their husbands.
Female emotions just cannot handle the possibility of losing their salvation.
That's one reason why they are viewed as spiritual morons.
Click to expand...
You have an obsession with sin.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
ZacharyB said:
Maybe that's why the Pauline ex-Jew kept talking about the hope of salvation.

The whole, entire, complete, etc. NT is about sin ...
and the consequences of habitual unrepentant sinning,
which is absolutely nothing less than eternal death!
Who wants to see the verses for the 100th time?

Now, of course, this believing sinner can repent, e.g. on his deathbed,
and who knows, maybe the Lord will accept him.

But, today's Laodicean church doesn't see it (or just doesn't want to see it).

Now, da females ... dat's a whole udder ting altogether!
IMO, that's why they're told by Paul to shut up and listen to their husbands.
Female emotions just cannot handle the possibility of losing their salvation.
That's one reason why they are viewed as spiritual morons.
Click to expand...

Don't like females huh? Hmmm?
 
andyc

andyc

New member
ZacharyB said:
Maybe that's why the Pauline ex-Jew kept talking about the hope of salvation.

The whole, entire, complete, etc. NT is about sin ...
and the consequences of habitual unrepentant sinning,
which is absolutely nothing less than eternal death!
Who wants to see the verses for the 100th time?

Now, of course, this believing sinner can repent, e.g. on his deathbed,
and who knows, maybe the Lord will accept him.

But, today's Laodicean church doesn't see it (or just doesn't want to see it).

Now, da females ... dat's a whole udder ting altogether!
IMO, that's why they're told by Paul to shut up and listen to their husbands.
Female emotions just cannot handle the possibility of losing their salvation.
That's one reason why they are viewed as spiritual morons.
Click to expand...

You need to realize that the nature of the flesh is sin inclined. This is why Paul explained that sin shall no longer have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.
As long as you think that an act of disobedience can impute unrighteousness to you, you are embracing a performance related religion based on works. The reason people like this are so aggressive where sin is concerned, is because the law still has power over their flesh, and they are trying to drive it out by human effort, while kidding themselves that they are in control. That is like pulling elastic, eventually you'll cave in and be overwhelmed by the flesh, and slump in failure and defeat begging for forgiveness that was already there in the first place.
As Totton said, this is a powerless terrible faithless religion of misery and despair.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
andyc said:
You need to realize that the nature of the flesh is sin inclined.
This is why Paul explained that sin shall no longer have dominion over you,
for you are not under law, but under grace.
Click to expand...
Nope! ... You misunderstand Paul, as do most here!

sin no longer has to have dominion over you
or, if you wish ...
If you do your part, sin shall no longer have dominion over you

Paul explains that the new nature makes it POSSIBLE to be victorious over sin.
Not only that, but the indwelling Holy Spirit doesn't do any harm either!
Dis being victorious over sin is called overcoming!
And not allowing Satan to triumph over you doesn't do much harm either.

The new nature, the indwelling Holy Spirit, etc.
is all part of the grace that you're all hung up about.

God's grace = the possibility of overcoming.

Jesus did not keep saying "Overcome!" because it's a done deal through grace!

We must co-operate with God ... and do our part ... and overcome!
 
andyc

andyc

New member
ZacharyB said:
Nope! ... You misunderstand Paul, as do most here!

sin no longer has to have dominion over you
or, if you wish ...
If you do your part, sin shall no longer have dominion over you

Paul explains that the new nature makes it POSSIBLE to be victorious over sin.
Dis is called overcoming!

The new nature, the indwelling Holy Spirit, etc. is all part of the grace that you're all hung up about.

God's grace = the possibility of overcoming.

Jesus did not keep saying "overcome" because it's a done deal.

We must co-operate with God ... and do our part ... and overcome!
Click to expand...

Ok I'm tracking with you, and agreeing with you because you seem to be putting emphasis on allowing the Spirit within to be the overcoming power. This is the moving into Romans 8.
What intrigues me is the "our part that we have to do" according to you. You need to expand on this part.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
ZacharyB said:
Nope! ... You misunderstand Paul, as do most here!

sin no longer has to have dominion over you
or, if you wish ...
If you do your part, sin shall no longer have dominion over you

Paul explains that the new nature makes it POSSIBLE to be victorious over sin.
Not only that, but the indwelling Holy Spirit doesn't do any harm either!
Dis being victorious over sin is called overcoming!
And not allowing Satan to triumph over you doesn't do much harm either.

The new nature, the indwelling Holy Spirit, etc.
is all part of the grace that you're all hung up about.

God's grace = the possibility of overcoming.

Jesus did not keep saying "Overcome!" because it's a done deal through grace!

We must co-operate with God ... and do our part ... and overcome!
Click to expand...
You are the one that does not understand Paul.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
ZacharyB said:
Maybe that's why the Pauline ex-Jew kept talking about the hope of salvation.

The whole, entire, complete, etc. NT is about sin ...
and the consequences of habitual unrepentant sinning,
which is absolutely nothing less than eternal death!
Who wants to see the verses for the 100th time?

Now, of course, this believing sinner can repent, e.g. on his deathbed,
and who knows, maybe the Lord will accept him.

But, today's Laodicean church doesn't see it (or just doesn't want to see it).

Now, da females ... dat's a whole udder ting altogether!
IMO, that's why they're told by Paul to shut up and listen to their husbands.
Female emotions just cannot handle the possibility of losing their salvation.
That's one reason why they are viewed as spiritual morons.
Click to expand...

A perfect example of the confusion of the natural man....of the flesh. :nono:
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
andyc said:
Ok I'm tracking with you, and agreeing with you because you seem to be putting emphasis on allowing the Spirit within to be the overcoming power. This is the moving into Romans 8.
What intrigues me is the "our part that we have to do" according to you. You need to expand on this part.
Click to expand...

Yeah, find out his part so he can boast. :chuckle:
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
andyc said:
Ok I'm tracking with you, and agreeing with you because you seem to be putting emphasis
on allowing the Spirit within to be the overcoming power. This is the moving into Romans 8.
What intrigues me is the "our part that we have to do" according to you. You need to expand on this part.
Click to expand...
Sorry, there are a lot of commandments, instructions, warnings, etc. ... they're all in the NT.
I don't have the time, patience, etc. to list them all.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
ZacharyB said:
Sorry, there are a lot of commandments, instructions, warnings, etc. ... they're all in the NT.
Click to expand...

This is what concerns me.
The NT commandments are all motivated by love. We love unconditionally because we are loved unconditionally. I suspect that you are interpreting the NT commandments in the fashion that we obey commands in order to be loved and accepted.

I'm really suspicious that you are needing a greater revelation of grace.
 
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