Does Calvinism limit God?

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Is Christian debate more of a monologue or point counter-point apologetic

Is Christian debate more of a monologue or point counter-point apologetic

Z Man – You said
I can speak for myself. I already went over this earlier in this post, but I'll repeat myself, just in case. Man's will is limited in that it is enslaved by sin. God must affect our will if there is any hope for man to receive salvation. How else can God get people to love Him without affecting their "free will"? It can't be done...
Spoken like a true open theist, corporate predestinarian. Bravo!

I know you can and do speak for yourself, I wasn’t speaking for you, I was responding to someone else about what I had said about you. Also, I affirmed that you can speak for yourself by saying, you said, ... demonstrating that you can and do speak for yourself. It is a free country right, this is a public forum right, I can “refer” to something you said without it being a problem.

Speaking “about” you, speaking “for” you, these must be very difficult concepts if you confuse them so easily. Joke, just kidding, we all can see that you twist things around so that you can make personal attacks even over superfluous issues, i.e. your temper gets the best of you. If I go to the dictionary, are you sure I will not find you there listed under ill will?

(?)
After reading your entire post I’m left wondering, didn’t I represent my arguments along with my points(?) I’m thinking especially of those arguments, which came directly from the bible?

Unless all you want to do is monologue, and play the claim game, one of your main goals should be to demonstrate why “my arguments” are wrong, not just why you think you are right on this topic. By the mentality of promoting one’s own sense of being in the right, all parties stand to loose the benefit of objectively seeking the truth of the matter.

You may not want to deal with my views, but, no one will be convinced you are right “about my views being wrong” if you don’t

1) specifically address my points along with their naturally connected support arguments
2) make counter arguments against mine that
2a) show an accurate understanding of what I am arguing
2b) show some logical fallacy or some other error in the expressed train of thought


This is a public service announcement


Friends don’t let friends run around the truth

Respect and understand the truth

Don’t violate or neglect the context


Moral support for this public announcement was provided by the campaign for putting truth back into Christianity


If need be, I’ll re-address my points and support arguments one doable step at a time so that we can keep a better focus, or I’ll simply await a direct response to my arguments and points. I just don’t want anyone to be deluded into thinking that just because you quoted me that you answered me let alone attacked/refuted my position.

Your first quote and response is a perfect example of the obfuscation I am referring to where you did not even deal with what I said. I appreciate your question at the end, but although that is pretty much on topic, it does not address my point and argument for my point about establishing what free will actually is before arguing if we have free will or not. But, I’ll show you my graciousness and good will and treat you like I wish you would treat me. The answer to your question is: Man does not have absolute control over his will, he is the only person controlling his will. There is a difference. But that is not the main issue. Why doesn’t free will man live perfect lives? Because of sin, sin is part of our nature, so I repeat my caution, lets not confuse this to be a discussion about the nature of our will or our being, it’s about man’s will, and control, is every person free to control their will or do others (or anything outside of their own self) control it. Also, even if we could live the perfect life, that would have no barring on this discussion, this is not about ability, it’s about control and responsibility.

Now, everyone, please be honest and tell me if my response was direct and fitting to his question. I quoted it, addressed it in several ways and demonstrated why it is incorrect or off base. That does not mean I’m right, nor does that mean the issue is resolved, but it does mean that I answered his question and did not meaningfully neglect it and go off into what I think is right despite his thinking.

For starters, please respond to the point and arguments in your first quote in your last post to me.
 
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LightSon

New member
1Way,
Is driving a truck your first pick of jobs?
To each his own. Driving truck is an honorable task and I am sure it has its own satisfaction and enjoyment.

But in terms of ability, it seems that you are being misapplied, if you don't mind me saying so. :)
 

Z Man

New member
Re: Is Christian debate more of a monologue or point counter-point apologetic

Re: Is Christian debate more of a monologue or point counter-point apologetic

Originally posted by 1Way

Is Christian debate more of a monologue or point counter-point apologetic


Z Man – You said Spoken like a true open theist, corporate predestinarian. Bravo!

I know you can and do speak for yourself, I wasn’t speaking for you, I was responding to someone else about what I had said about you. Also, I affirmed that you can speak for yourself by saying, you said, ... demonstrating that you can and do speak for yourself. It is a free country right, this is a public forum right, I can “refer” to something you said without it being a problem.

Speaking “about” you, speaking “for” you, these must be very difficult concepts if you confuse them so easily. Joke, just kidding, we all can see that you twist things around so that you can make personal attacks even over superfluous issues, i.e. your temper gets the best of you. If I go to the dictionary, are you sure I will not find you there listed under ill will?

(?)
After reading your entire post I’m left wondering, didn’t I represent my arguments along with my points(?) I’m thinking especially of those arguments, which came directly from the bible?

Unless all you want to do is monologue, and play the claim game, one of your main goals should be to demonstrate why “my arguments” are wrong, not just why you think you are right on this topic. By the mentality of promoting one’s own sense of being in the right, all parties stand to loose the benefit of objectively seeking the truth of the matter.

You may not want to deal with my views, but, no one will be convinced you are right “about my views being wrong” if you don’t

1) specifically address my points along with their naturally connected support arguments
2) make counter arguments against mine that
2a) show an accurate understanding of what I am arguing
2b) show some logical fallacy or some other error in the expressed train of thought


This is a public service announcement


Friends don’t let friends run around the truth

Respect and understand the truth

Don’t violate or neglect the context


Moral support for this public announcement was provided by the campaign for putting truth back into Christianity


If need be, I’ll re-address my points and support arguments one doable step at a time so that we can keep a better focus, or I’ll simply await a direct response to my arguments and points. I just don’t want anyone to be deluded into thinking that just because you quoted me that you answered me let alone attacked/refuted my position.

Your first quote and response is a perfect example of the obfuscation I am referring to where you did not even deal with what I said. I appreciate your question at the end, but although that is pretty much on topic, it does not address my point and argument for my point about establishing what free will actually is before arguing if we have free will or not. But, I’ll show you my graciousness and good will and treat you like I wish you would treat me. The answer to your question is: Man does not have absolute control over his will, he is the only person controlling his will. There is a difference. But that is not the main issue. Why doesn’t free will man live perfect lives? Because of sin, sin is part of our nature, so I repeat my caution, lets not confuse this to be a discussion about the nature of our will or our being, it’s about man’s will, and control, is every person free to control their will or do others (or anything outside of their own self) control it. Also, even if we could live the perfect life, that would have no barring on this discussion, this is not about ability, it’s about control and responsibility.

Now, everyone, please be honest and tell me if my response was direct and fitting to his question. I quoted it, addressed it in several ways and demonstrated why it is incorrect or off base. That does not mean I’m right, nor does that mean the issue is resolved, but it does mean that I answered his question and did not meaningfully neglect it and go off into what I think is right despite his thinking.

For starters, please respond to the point and arguments in your first quote in your last post to me.
:kookoo:

When you are ready to have a mature debate with me, let me know. Otherwise, this isn't going to go anywhere. You seem to be soooooo far out in left field that it's not even funny. Are you even in the right thread? All you do is whine about how I don't respond to your posts, when I quoted and commented on everything you said! I objected to your views, gave scripture to prove I was right and that you are horribly wrong, and all you can do is continually post, "Your wrong, I'm right; just read my posts". That's lame dude. All you did in that last post was address one simple question I came up with, which, by the way, wasn't even all that important! You did not address the main issue of my post!

Snap out of it and come back to earth. When you do, I'll be ready to debate with you...
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
LightSon – Well bless your sole. :darwinsm: I don’t mind at all. You should have heard some of the conversations I had with truckers on the cb, I’m not nearly your average driver and I sure made a lot of heads spin and gave a lot of hot heads and liberal’s and heathen some new food for thought.

If you think this arena is a tough crowd, you should try being a conservative Christian, right winger, not nicer than God, evangelical, intellectual, philosophical, computer GPS mapping and voice recognition savvy, homophobic, gum chewer instead of cigarette smoker, bible thumping, extreme minority (strange) theology sharing, pro-death penalty, anti-choice, water not coffee drinking, professional truck driver, who doesn’t have much of a social life and who wants to bless others with the truth that can set them free. Talk about a recipe for disaster. !!! They are monsters out there.

But the more I stuck with it, the more I sharpened my tactics and towards the end I was getting as much as a 5 - 10% positive feedback ratio. :D Half of those positive results were not very stimulating conversations, some drivers just want to share their problems with someone who cares and such. Most though, they’d like to punch me out or flatten my tires, there’s a lot of cb Rambos and cd black belts though, they act tough as nails hiding behind that microphone, just to try to bully the Christians and the concervatives off the air. If you aren’t talking about sex or booze or woman or making bare reports, or sex, they’d trash talk you all day long if they thought they could silence the Christian. And I was never one to hog the mic either, I would speak long enough to try to get a reasonable discussion going and then move to another channel.

In a year and a half, I bet you I didn’t have much over 1 1/2 dozen redemptive discussions, compared to daily attempts to make righteous discussions.

I’d love to do something different, but money is an issue, I went to collage and created by own personalized national debt program, but driving pays fairly good, also for most white collar jobs, I have a skeleton in my closet (a felony) which often makes it difficult for me to get a decent job, and my age has caught up with me so many factory jobs are less appealing. For me, making a living in this life is more like learning to accept failure and debt. But I’m always open for options and opportunities, but the phrase the future’s so bright, I gotta ware shades, does not seem to apply.

Poor Z Man, he can’t accept constructive criticism nor learn that obfuscation will get him nowhere. I wonder if I could repost my points and see if he’ll respond to them directly in a point counter point way this time. (?) By his attitude, he’s be the last person I’d expect to be objective and intellectually honest, other than someone like smaller, and Freak, I guess.
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by 1Way
Poor Z Man, he can’t accept constructive criticism nor learn that obfuscation will get him nowhere. I wonder if I could repost my points and see if he’ll respond to them directly in a point counter point way this time. (?)
I don't know if you can actually read or not, or if you have someone else doing the reading for you, because I've already responded to your posts.

Telling someone they are wrong simply because you believe to be right is not constructive criticism.
By his attitude, he’s be the last person I’d expect to be objective and intellectually honest, other than someone like smaller, and Freak, I guess.
What attitude? I would love to debate with you, but you are definitly not cooperating at all here! I answer your questions and make my points (with scripture I might add), but you keep stating that I'm wrong and have not answered your questions or discussed your topics! Seriously, I have no clue as to how you think. You baffle me in regards to your sporadic nonsense and whining.

Also, the only person with an attitude around here is you! YThe attitude that you possess towards me is of one in which you hold yourself at a higher spiritual and intellectual level than me, and frankly, I'm sick of it...
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
1Way: I am a miserable member of the debt club. I pray for financial freedom for both of us. Jehovah Jireh, My Provider...

Do you have any awareness or involvement with ? truckers for Christ or whatever the chaplain ministry at truck stops is called?
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
God is not our provider without exception...

God is not our provider without exception...

Oh, ya, I try to minister the truth to ministers whenever I can.

They have a few different organizations at different locations. But unfortunately they are a great example of some of the worst in Christianity concerning being faithful to the truth about God and His word. However, since they are more of a layperson common man street level sort of operation, they are a bit more humble in their theology and such, they "sometimes" have a bit more of a teachable spirit despite the tremendous amount of false teachings. Don't get me wrong, I think they are wonderful, but false teachings are still destructive.

I've got this one guy's phone number from close to St Paul MN who is interested in the Plot for example. We had a great talk and I will have to get back in touch with him sometime.

I have several truck drivers phone numbers that I need to follow up with also. People need to know the truth that can set them free. One guy is from Bosnia where his parents were both killed in their home! He was sent to go into town to get cigarettes and when he came back the house and everything was demolished. The UN ended up sending him to Germany I think and he has a mix of Christianity and Moslem background. He was tortured by neo Nazis where they tied him up and cut him and left him for dead for three days until the police finally found him. He may be getting married soon and we had a really good conversation. I told him some things that I learned about the Islamic faith about the Koran that he was surprised to hear. And he seemed interested in my views about Christianity.

Another guy was a wild case, he swallowed the whale of a lie from that book series, conversations with God. It’s a terrible deal of subjectivism and sexual immorality and a denial of right and wrong. I sort of castigated him over the cb, and we talked for hours and even pulled over and had some coffee and hot apple cider. It was fun meeting him, but at one point, I had to tell him the truth in love, that he is a moral moron. He defended Hitler and murder, or at least used them as examples that he could not say was wrong, because for Hitler, it was right, so it was right for him. I believe that he never ran into anyone like me before because he just could not stop making himself look like a complete idiot. I kept telling him, ok, so for you, if someone came into your home and murdered your wife, you would not prefer that to happen, but you would not condemn nor say it was wrong to do that, because the murderer was simply doing what he wanted to do and thought was right to do. I said, so for you to say that the murder was wrong, would be on the same order as you saying, that you like to eat hamburgers better than hotdogs, it’s just your own personal preference, you can not even say that murder is wrong? And he would say nope, I can’t say that anything is wrong, who am I to judge and all that nicer than God crap. He was a trip, a Canadian, and we left on fairly good terms despite our disagreements, but I don’t give him much hope for recovery, he thinks that book series saved his marriage, and they are probably swimming in a cesspool of sexual immorality because of a few things he almost said and because of the teachings from that book series promoting playful experimentation with sex and that nothing is wrong, just do what you feel like doing.

:darwinsm: So, does that answer your question. :eek:

Although I appreciate the good will, I’m sorry your respect for me was affirmed the way it was, you are a tough cookie to crumble, but, I will not be nicer than God, not even for you, in fact especially for you, I will be non-hypocritical and truthful with my love. Godliness would have it no other way.
:sozo2:
:help:
:)
 
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Z Man

New member
Re: God is not our provider without exception...

Re: God is not our provider without exception...

Originally posted by 1Way
Another guy was a wild case, he swallowed the whale of a lie from that book series, conversations with God....

...It was fun meeting him, but at one point, I had to tell him the truth in love, that he is a moral moron....

...I believe that he never ran into anyone like me before because he just could not stop making himself look like a complete idiot...

...He was a trip, a Canadian, and we left on fairly good terms despite our disagreements, but I don’t give him much hope for recovery...
You have a serious spiritual ego problem. Everyone is an idiot except you....

:down::rolleyes:
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by Mr Potato Head

Would you say that someone who thinks Hitler was not wrong is not an idiot??? Maybe not since it's all according to plan...
1Way didn't say he was an idiot because he believed Hitler was right. Noooooo...1Way said:
Originally posted by 1Way
I believe that he never ran into anyone like me before because he just could not stop making himself look like a complete idiot...
Notice that 1Way stated that the guy had never met anyone like himself before.....oooOOOOoooohhhhh...

Basically, because the guy was not like 1Way, or possessed 1Way's spiritual maturity or knowledge, 1Way looks down upon him and calls him a complete idiot...

:rolleyes:
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Z, what can we say?

Z, what can we say?

Thanks Mr Potato Head, Z Man is being himself again so go figure.

Z Man - No, everyone is not a moron, your personality and role model is not yet that enduring, but give it some time.

The guy said that there is no such thing as right and wrong, it’s all about what you prefer to do. He even defended Hitler and all murder that ever happened by saying that we can not condemn nor judge them, in fact, he told me that Hitler experienced his own paradise or heaven, since what Hitler did satisfied the longing of his soul, he accomplished more paradise or heaven on earth than many so called good people.

I don’t know about you, well, yes I do, but you are of a different sort, anyway, that is top grade immorality and the direction is leading people to the pit and not to God. That is why I know that teaching is damnable, not because it does not reflect me.

As to my comment about the guy not running into anyone like me before, and him being an idiot, was because of his repeated failing and ungodly unrighteous and contradictory remarks and arguments. I told him that if someone raped and murdered his wife, wouldn’t you be enraged because of the shedding of innocent blood, especially your own family? And he did not stand corrected, he would not condemn nor condone anyone for doing anything, the only thing he could muster as far as a personal retort would be that he would not do that himself (murder, rape), because for him, he thinks it’s wrong to do that.

When I repeatedly showed him the lack of moral grounding (understatement) he was displaying by demonstrating that his opposition to his wife or family being raped and murdered was on the same order as me saying, ya, perhaps, but I like the color red better than the color blue, that is MY preference. Who cares if you like chocolate better than vanilla, no one cares about your personal preferences. You can never establish ANY moral footing on the grounds of a personal preference, and so he has utterly eliminated himself from any moral authority about what is right or wrong, he even said that he believes that he has no business judging anyone.

Actually, at first he said that no one has any business judging anyone, and so I had to correct him on that contradiction, because if I am judging someone, then he is judging against me for judging someone, yet he says no one should judge anyone(!), and thus he would be the hypocrite for saying that, so then he did stand corrected on that point and said that he should have said that he just thinks that it is wrong for him to judge others, and that he would prefer it if others did not judge others but if they did, then whatever, he had no judgment for or against.

I had to correct that sort of simple hypocrisy in him probably a dozen times that night, it was so funny watching him try to sound morally correct about Michael Jackson and terrorism, he’d start speaking the truth from inside his heart as though right and wrong actually exist (I think the lies of subjectivism only appeal to him in a superficial way, because he kept violating his own subjective stated beliefs) and I’d look at him sideways and correct him until finally all I had to do was look at him sideways and he would correct himself (yet another bunch of times). Obviously he had never dealt with anyone like me before otherwise he would not have acted the fool and hypocrite and contradict himself pretty much during the entire (4 hour?) conversation about his own beliefs!

He relegated himself into being a full grown adult moral moron, because the last I check, moron has nothing authoritative to say on a topic also. He is probably in his early 30’s and has finally matured to the point where he could not condemn rape, murder or the holocaust in any way. Even a babe in Christ could condemn that much. He was a nice likable guy, and he took all my comments well, we exchanged phone numbers and will re-establish contact hopefully soon.


You do believe in absolutes, don’t you Mr Z? and that it is absolutely wrong to speak neutrally and un-righteously about wickedness, and that we should judge and condemn others who mass murder for example?


Am 5:15 Hate evil, love good; Establish justice in the gate. It may be that the LORD God of hosts Will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.

Mal 2:17 You have wearied the LORD with your words; Yet you say, "In what way have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil Is good in the sight of the LORD, And He delights in them," Or, "Where is the God of justice?"

see signature below
 
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Z Man

New member
Re: Z, what can we say?

Re: Z, what can we say?

Originally posted by 1Way
Z Man - No, everyone is not a moron, your personality and role model is not yet that enduring, but give it some time.
My personality and role model is not yet enduring??? Do you think you know what's best for me 1Way? You think you can look down upon me because my personality is not like yours?

:darwinsm:

My personality is great! It's exactly how God made me and I would have it no other way! I don't give a crap what you think about my personality, or if you think it's as "righteous" and "holy" as yours! I'd rather die than to be anything like you! I'm ZMAN, a unique individual whom God loves and has saved and is using me in His own ways, apart from anyone else's desires.

The type of attitude you possess really chaps my hide, especially among other Christians. :mad:
You do believe in absolutes, don’t you Mr Z? and that it is absolutely wrong to speak neutrally and un-righteously about wickedness, and that we should judge and condemn others who mass murder for example?
What Christian doesn't believe in absolutes? That's a stupid question to be asking me.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I believe 'Conversations with God' was channelled like a demonically inspired spirit medium. It shows our lack of discernment that Christian bookstores carried it and it made our best-selling lists?!
 

Freak

New member
Re: Re: Z, what can we say?

Re: Re: Z, what can we say?

Originally posted by Z Man to 1way

The type of attitude you possess really chaps my hide, especially among other Christians. :mad:
You're right on about 1way. Pathetic. :down:
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Z – You said
What Christian doesn't believe in absolutes? That's a stupid question to be asking me.
If you recall, it was you who did not understand the nature of how it was that I was charging that moral moron, as being a moron. After you reading my explanation of the guys beliefs on morality, instead of you rightly understanding all that about the extreme foolishness of personal subjectivism, instead you thought I was saying that he was a moron because he was not like me.

Maybe you two are related?

Also, Z, maybe your personal subjectivist thoughts of constantly comparing me and you and other Christians does not seem exceedingly stupid especially when considering what we are talking about, but to me I think you should reconsider your crap statements and stand more on the objective truth from God’s word. Here’s an example of why your view is evil at it’s core. You said
My personality is great! It's exactly how God made me and I would have it no other way! I don't give a crap what you think about my personality, or if you think it's as "righteous" and "holy" as yours! I'd rather die than to be anything like you! I'm ZMAN, a unique individual whom God loves and has saved and is using me in His own ways, apart from anyone else's desires.
Your so pleased with fatalism, yet the mass murderer can say the exact same foolishness, and since he could not possibly stop from doing what he does in fact do, then why not just be happy about it all, in fact, why not just brag about it as it all being by God’s glorious design and will. You profane God in the highest degree, it’s no wonder you do not lend Christ like food for thought and a heart of brotherly love and such, you can be the most asinine pervert and just say, it’s all good, God made me this way. Not that you’ve been the most asinine pervert by any stretch, who knows though, give it time.

(Correction)
Opps, I meant “endearing”, not enduring in my previous post. Well actually, it was probably a subconscious transposition of sorts, your comment saying “to 1Way everyone is a moron”, is an accurate snapshot of the causticly revolting things you bring forth from the treasury of vomit of your inner man. And since we all have to “endure” such things if we are to continue a discussion with you, an “endearing” moronic personality would have to be seriously “endured” to have any chance of it rubbing off on everyone else. So because of the disgusting nature of the Z, my error is somewhat understandable.

Oh my, isn’t this ,,, what we all want and desire in our relationships
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Godrulz – You said
I believe 'Conversations with God' was channelled like a demonically inspired spirit medium. It shows our lack of discernment that Christian bookstores carried it and it made our best-selling lists?!
I believe it was a secularly written spiritual fraud, demons need not apply. I blame the author for his evil, and to suggest that demon possession happens today is dubious, ,,, unless of course your talking about Michelle Jackson or something like that. Good point about it making a best sellers list on the probable guise of it being a Christian book or at least a book about the Christian God. I wonder if that was via Christian best selling markets or otherwise? From my understanding, virtually everything Christian has been bought up by secular businesses, especially music and book publishers. One "might" think that a purposeful focus on God's word instead of man's word would be the best solution.

Thanks for presenting a contextually respectful and thoughtful comment.
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by 1Way

Z – You said If you recall, it was you who did not understand the nature of how it was that I was charging that moral moron, as being a moron. After you reading my explanation of the guys beliefs on morality, instead of you rightly understanding all that about the extreme foolishness of personal subjectivism, instead you thought I was saying that he was a moron because he was not like me.

Maybe you two are related?

Also, Z, maybe your personal subjectivist thoughts of constantly comparing me and you and other Christians does not seem exceedingly stupid especially when considering what we are talking about, but to me I think you should reconsider your crap statements and stand more on the objective truth from God’s word. Here’s an example of why your view is evil at it’s core. You said Your so pleased with fatalism, yet the mass murderer can say the exact same foolishness, and since he could not possibly stop from doing what he does in fact do, then why not just be happy about it all, in fact, why not just brag about it as it all being by God’s glorious design and will. You profane God in the highest degree, it’s no wonder you do not lend Christ like food for thought and a heart of brotherly love and such, you can be the most asinine pervert and just say, it’s all good, God made me this way. Not that you’ve been the most asinine pervert by any stretch, who knows though, give it time.

(Correction)
Opps, I meant “endearing”, not enduring in my previous post. Well actually, it was probably a subconscious transposition of sorts, your comment saying “to 1Way everyone is a moron”, is an accurate snapshot of the causticly revolting things you bring forth from the treasury of vomit of your inner man. And since we all have to “endure” such things if we are to continue a discussion with you, an “endearing” moronic personality would have to be seriously “endured” to have any chance of it rubbing off on everyone else. So because of the disgusting nature of the Z, my error is somewhat understandable.

Oh my, isn’t this ,,, what we all want and desire in our relationships
You don't want to debate; you want to attack and insult anyone who holds a different view than you. I don't want to play your game. I'd rather have a mature debate with a reasonable christian, and you definitly do not meet that criteria.

This is the second time I have had to say this to you: When you grow up and are ready to debate, I'll be waiting...
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Z Man to 1Way

You don't want to debate; you want to attack and insult anyone who holds a different view than you. I don't want to play your game. I'd rather have a mature debate with a reasonable christian, and you definitly do not meet that criteria.
I'm telling you...more & more believers in Christ are seeing that this guy is simply a simpleton who lacks spiritual understanding...

This is the second time I have had to say this to you: When you grow up and are ready to debate, I'll be waiting...
:crackup:
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
It's muddy because you are constantly slinging the mud

It's muddy because you are constantly slinging the mud

The truth matters.

For all who just read Z Man's post, and especially without him accurately copying my post, you might be confused as to what honestly is going on. The truth is that I do want to debate these issues but I keep having to defend Z Man's personal attacks which he seems to want to swim in them, instead of deal with the issue at hand. Please review the focus that Z Man has on promoting his ill will instead of dealing with Christian and bible issues. The quotes are from his post 153 which was in response to my post which was in response to his. Notice the ONLY thing he does is try to defend his false personal attacks, this issue is from Z Man, I did not even address my post to him about the truckers who I've been trying to reach for the Lord. Yet Now Z Man wants to blame me for avoiding the debate/discussion. What a deal he is.


(It's just a repost, of my post 156 that Z Man neglected to fill in the quotes, and to demonstrate that he is the one who is exhasberate the situation of constantly throwing tangents at me, wild tangents of gross preportions.)


Z – You said
What Christian doesn't believe in absolutes? That's a stupid question to be asking me.
If you recall, it was you who did not understand the nature of how it was that I was charging that moral moron, as being a moron. After you reading my explanation of the guys beliefs on morality, instead of you rightly understanding all that about the extreme foolishness of personal subjectivism, instead you thought I was saying that he was a moron because he was not like me.

Maybe you two are related?

Also, Z, maybe your personal subjectivist thoughts of constantly comparing me and you and other Christians does not seem exceedingly stupid especially when considering what we are talking about, but to me I think you should reconsider your crap statements and stand more on the objective truth from God’s word. Here’s an example of why your view is evil at it’s core. You said
My personality is great! It's exactly how God made me and I would have it no other way! I don't give a crap what you think about my personality, or if you think it's as "righteous" and "holy" as yours! I'd rather die than to be anything like you! I'm ZMAN, a unique individual whom God loves and has saved and is using me in His own ways, apart from anyone else's desires.
Your so pleased with fatalism, yet the mass murderer can say the exact same foolishness, and since he could not possibly stop from doing what he does in fact do, then why not just be happy about it all, in fact, why not just brag about it as it all being by God’s glorious design and will. You profane God in the highest degree, it’s no wonder you do not lend Christ like food for thought and a heart of brotherly love and such, you can be the most asinine pervert and just say, it’s all good, God made me this way. Not that you’ve been the most asinine pervert by any stretch, who knows though, give it time.

(Correction)
Opps, I meant “endearing”, not enduring in my previous post. Well actually, it was probably a subconscious transposition of sorts, your comment saying “to 1Way everyone is a moron”, is an accurate snapshot of the causticly revolting things you bring forth from the treasury of vomit of your inner man. And since we all have to “endure” such things if we are to continue a discussion with you, an “endearing” moronic personality would have to be seriously “endured” to have any chance of it rubbing off on everyone else. So because of the disgusting nature of the Z, my error is somewhat understandable.

Oh my, isn’t this ,,, what we all want and desire in our relationships
 
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