Battle Talk ~ Battle Royale VII

Status
Not open for further replies.

PureX

Well-known member
The Blinding Light

The Blinding Light

Originally posted by SOTK4ever I continue to find
it amusing that atheists, ex-fundamentalists, or whatever else you call yourselves continue to hang out at a theology based forum website and have the audacity to claim we are brainwashers shoving our beliefs down others' throats.
Perhaps they were referring to those Christians who are constantly trying to force their religious symbols into public buildings, and their prayers and religious dogmas onto public school children, and their concept of morality into public law. Oh, but I'm sure you aren't one of them! So you couldn't possibly see why they might have the "audacity to claim we are brainwashers shoving our beliefs down others' throats".
Originally posted by SOTK4ever I find your
motivation in hanging out in here suspect. I don't know about any
other Christian or theist here, but I will never be convinced by
anything any of you have to say because of this, and more importantly because of my faith.
How wise and open-minded of you to presume you are so absolutely right in what you believe that there is no reason to even consider another's point of view!
Originally posted by SOTK4ever I would never waste my time or yours going to an atheist specific web site to harrass the people socializing and engaging in specific belief related discussion. I would, however, go there if I was interested to learn about what you believe in and thought I could maintain openmindedness. But I am not in the least bit interested which is why I choose to hang out in a theist online community.
Well, why would you when you are so certainly and absolutely right in all you believe?
Originally posted by SOTK4ever I realize that I am new to TOL, but I have spent a great deal of time reading the arguments between theists and atheists, amongst other topics as well, and have concluded that you atheists go around and around, spouting the same stuff over and over again. For what?
And you haven't noticed the theists repeating their irrational dogmas at all? Interesting how blind one can become when they are so absolutely right in all they believe.
Originally posted by SOTK4ever It can't be an
honest attempt to understand the theist or be openminded to his beliefs as I have seen no evidence of this whatsoever. What is it? Hmmm...how about the enjoyment of ticking off theists??
Of coarse you have seen none of this from the theist side!
Originally posted by SOTK4ever If you are all so
interested in discussing evolution, blah, blah, blah.....discuss it
amongst yourselves. If I want to deepen and enlarge my knowledge of the faith I have in Christ, I talk, and even sometimes argue, with
fellow believers. Doesn't that seem logical?
Yes, talking only
to people who already agree with you will really advance your
understanding of how absolutely right and correct you are in all your
views of everything, like evolution, so it would be foolish to actually
talk to any of those pesky evolutionists.
Originally posted by SOTK4ever With all of this
being said, I do want to emphasize that if any of you are legitimately,
honestly interested in what a theist believes and have questions, by
all means, fire away! I'd be more than happy to talk with any of you
about my beliefs.
Given the brilliance of your perspective, I'm sure there will be a clamor of atheists seeking anxiously to learn what you know.
 

SOTK

New member
Originally posted by ex_fundy
SOTK4ever,

"Theology" is the study of the nature of god and religious truth, it is not in any sense limited to the Christian faith or your personal version of who god is.

You should go to Ex-Christians.com or some of the atheists sites and you'd see a bunch of "christians" over there pushing their perspective as well. Although, most of the "christians" visiting there seem to prefer drive-bys (1 or 2 mean-spirited posts, zero discussion, and then they are gone).

Fundamentalism (within any religous belief system) has effects on society outside of the lives of the individuals that hold those beliefs. I have witnessed many damaged lives from the excesses associated with Christian fundamentalism. I consider it a duty to expose the fallacies I've learned during my experience in fundamentalism, to help others.

To publically debate the merits of any belief system is an important process in any free society.

Whatever makes you feel better about being here, huh, ex-fundy? Duty....whatever. To help others from what? Do you honestly believe that Christianity hurts me? If I am wrong about my beliefs, my life on earth spent believing in God will not have harmed anything. I am free believing in God. My quality of life is better because of this. I don't have to be in charge and control. Why would I give that up? So I could be cynical like you and spend my time hanging out at a Theology based web site claiming I am here to argue for the greater good! Give me a break. Why don't you and the others' take a whiff of what you are shoveling!

You are just bitter, ex-fundy. Most of you atheists are. What makes you think that me or anybody else here wants to hear your feeble arguments about the evils' of Christian fundamentalism? You guys are doing what you claim to hate about Christians. You are all evangelizing your beliefs which is why I find you being here amusing as well as ironic.
 

SOTK

New member
Re: The Blinding Light

Re: The Blinding Light

Originally posted by PureX
How wise and open-minded of you to presume you are so absolutely right in what you believe that there is no reason to even consider another's point of view!

I don't presume anything. I know I am right. My beliefs are completley backed up in the Bible. I don't really care what you believe which is why I am at a Theology based forum site. I don't need to go to an atheist site to argue so that I might feel better about what I believe in.

Well, why would you when you are so certainly and absolutely right in all you believe?

That's the point, isn't it? I am certain so I wouldn't.

And you haven't noticed the theists repeating their irrational dogmas at all? Interesting how blind one can become when they are so absolutely right in all they believe.
Of coarse you have seen none of this from the theist side!

Wouldn't I hear repeated dogmas at a Theology based web site? Hence, we are all religious believing in God?

Yes, talking only to people who already agree with you will really advance your understanding of how absolutely right and correct you are in all your views of everything, like evolution, so it would be foolish to actually talk to any of those pesky evolutionists.

Oh, you want advancement, PureX? Are you really being honest with yourself and us about your intentions for being here?

Given the brilliance of your perspective, I'm sure there will be a clamor of atheists seeking anxiously to learn what you know.

Thanks for proving my points.
 
Last edited:

bmyers

BANNED BY MOD
Banned by Mod
Re: Gravity's affects on time

Re: Gravity's affects on time

Originally posted by Heino
I, too, am very skeptical of this. Being a mathematics nerd, I tend to want to know about the numbers and algorythms used to determine such things, so as to understand them. For example, how do we determine the weight of the universe? How do we determine the gravitational center? Most importantly, how great is the gravity at the center of the universe?

Further, I tend to suspect that Jack thinks there IS a three-dimensional center, but we'll see...ooops, I just gave him a hint! :)
 

bmyers

BANNED BY MOD
Banned by Mod
Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Originally posted by SOTK4ever
I don't presume anything. I know I am right. My beliefs are completley backed up in the Bible. I don't really care what you believe which is why I am at a Theology based forum site. I don't need to go to an atheist site to argue so that I might feel better about what I believe in.

First, just a friendly reminder - please note that you have to close quotes with a "slashQUOTE" in brackets, or else it doesn't come out right. (Sorry, wish I could just show that, but I don't know how without it being interpreted...)

Now, as to the matter at hand - I think it is the "I KNOW I am right attitude" that is being questioned here. And I'm not certain that you even really mean that, if you think about it. Is everything you believe absolutely correct? If so, then you are claiming that YOU are perfect and without error, which I don't believe is what you intended. Even those who believe that God and/or the Bible are "perfect" or "inerrant" do not, in my experience, claim those conditions for themselves. It is at least possible, after all, that those things would be perfect, but your knowledge or understanding of them would not be. So it is troubling, at least, to see someone claim that they "KNOW they are right."

Secondly, if you DID know that you were right - why would YOU be here? If you're absolutely certain of your correctness, then you have little need of actually discussing your beliefs with anyone - they're simply not open to change, so why bother? If, on the other hand, you are convinced you are correct and are coming to forums such as this one in order to spread your correct beliefs, I would have to say that you've picked the wrong place. It appears that the majority here already believe similarly to you - so you'd be "preaching to the choir." You may recall how Jesus responded when he was rebuked for spending time with sinners...


Wouldn't I hear repeated dogmas at a Theology based web site? Hence, we are all religious believing in God?

As was mentioned before, "theology" is not exclusively a fundamentalist or even Christian domain; it is the field concerned with discussing the nature of God in general. As such, one would assume that a site that calls itself "Theology Online" would be a place for the open discussion of that topic. Discussions typically involved multiple viewpoints; I tend to find them a lot more interesting that way. Monologues, we can get anywhere...:)
 

flash

BANNED
Banned
Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Originally posted by SOTK4ever
I don't presume anything. I know I am right.


Alot of atheists also "know they are right."

Originally posted by SOTK4ever Are you really being honest with yourself and us about your intentions for being here?

Are you really being honest about your intentions for being here? If you don't want to talk or debate with atheists, what are you doing in the part of the forum that is designed for debates? There are other areas in TOL where you can talk with other believers.

You are here voluntarily, and so are the atheists. If you cannot take the heat (defend your views) get out of the kitchen.
 

ex_fundy

New member
Originally posted by One Eyed Jack In America, Christians are allowed to legislate as much as anybody else. The Bible nowhere commands us not to take a hand in that.
Then you agree with my statement about believers under Saddam. You must also agree that this nation was founded in rebellion against the King of England (and God, since he placed the King there), therefore calling it a Christian nation is intrinsically false.
 

NATEDOG

New member
SOTK4ever,
What are you talking about? There are some specifically Christian discussions threads, but a lot of what makes this place worthwhile is the interactions between Christians, atheists, muslims,
and even LDS's in the various philosophy threads.
This is a debate forum isn't it? What do you expect here?
 

ex_fundy

New member
Originally posted by SOTK4ever Whatever makes you feel better about being here, huh, ex-fundy? Duty....
Actually I find these discussions very reinforcing of the reasons I left in the first place. You wouldn't want me to have doubts about my exodus out of fundamentalistm, would you?

And, yes, duty is another reason. I believe that the pursuit of truth (as opposed to the defense of 2000 year old dogma), whereever it leads, is the highest endeavor of humanity. And to help others that have been thoroughly indoctrinated into a belief system I am now convinced is false, is an act of kindness or morality for me.

Do you honestly believe that Christianity hurts me? If I am wrong about my beliefs, my life on earth spent believing in God will not have harmed anything.
Absolute dogmatism toward any individual belief system has resulted in more than a little hurt in the history of humanity. For you personally, it may have no more impact that belonging to the Lions club or any other social organization. But for those that get caught up in the extremes of fundamentalism, I've seen a lot of social problems result. Did you know that divorce among born again Christians is higher than among Atheists? Read the 1999 Barna research poll.

My quality of life is better because of this.
My life is better because I bought a mountain bike, but I won't be telling others that they are destined to meaningless lives of sin (followed by eternal punishment) if they don't follow suit.

You are just bitter, ex-fundy. Most of you atheists are.
First of all, I'm not yet an atheist. That may change, but for now I still consider myself a Theist. If you are paying attention you will notice that my arguments have not been pro-evolution or pro-atheism, but pointing out the flaws in Bob's arguments and the sect of fundamentalism.
Second, I am not bitter at all :) I know that it helps you rationalize things away to think so, but it's not true. I am a little bugged at my own ignorance in not detecting the errors much sooner, but why would that cause bitterness?

What makes you think that me or anybody else here wants to hear your feeble arguments about the evils' of Christian fundamentalism?
Which of my arguments was feeble? Perhaps if you post something with content we could actually discuss such issues.

You guys are doing what you claim to hate about Christians. You are all evangelizing your beliefs which is why I find you being here amusing as well as ironic.
I am not evangelizing beliefs, but causing those stuck in dogmatism to question. Which is something I wish someone had done for me 20 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of hours listening to sermons, teaching sunday school, singing songs, etc. that could have been used for better purposes.
 

ex_fundy

New member
Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Re: Re: The Blinding Light

Originally posted by SOTK4ever I know I am right. My beliefs are completley backed up in the Bible.
I know I am right. My beliefs are completely backed up in the Koran.

I know I am right. My beliefs are completely backed up in the Book or Mormons.

I know I am right. My beliefs are completely backed up by the Vedas.

I know I am right. My beliefs are completely backed up by the Pope.

Such certitude of ones belief system tends to lead to conflict (often violent) with others. While your current form of Christianity may be relatively peaceful, that hasn't always been the case. Historically, when a group with religious certitude achieves political power problems happened.
 

D the Atheist

New member
One Eyed Jack asked what are some of his beliefs that I question.

The Ark story cannot be justified by a call to some recent book or other that has not had proper scientific scrutiny.

It would not be possible for Noah to gather two and seven of certain kinds of animals from all over the planet. This could not be achieved even now (New species are being discovered on a regular basis) with an expectation of getting them back to the Ark alive.

If a god arranged for the animals to come to the Ark by spiritual decree, then why didn’t he just wipe out that which offended him in the first place.

Let me start with a quote out of the KJV A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof;

This appears to be the only one small opening in the Ark.

The numbers of different species are in the millions. They all depend on certain temperatures, humidity, light/dark, water, desert, mountain, plainS and the list goes on.

Animals stress and die if their environment is interfered with suddenly.

Animals die if the correct food is not eaten. It is no good saying that they made do. That does not work with MOST animals.

Jack suggest that like an anaconda he has heard about (No references given) that lived for four years without food, likewise other animals could not be so dependant either. Sorry, but most animals are not like reptiles. In fact only reptiles are like reptiles.

Jack also suggests that hibernation, creating a time of inactively, would have helped the animals get by. Wrong Jack! Most animals come from the warmer parts of the planet and do not or are not capable of hibernation.

The temperature in the Ark would soon reach the mean average of the body temperatures of all the animals and those under or over that level would stress and many would die, especially those on the extremes.

Jack says the water intake was something in the order (I’m guessing here so I do not have to wade through mountains of stuff) 30,000 litres or gallons a day. Apart from the immense problem of humans getting this into the boat and distributing it, how was it got rid of when it turned into urine. And how was the dung collected from so many animals.

This is a recipe for disease being produced at an unprecedented rate. There would not just be two by two viruses.

If the small widow was the only opening, which is included to cover the water not getting in during the violence of the rain period, why didn’t the animals and humans all smother.

The boat was made of wood and since that time no boat of that size, or anything near it, has ever been built. The reason is because it was structurally impossible or merchants would have re-created such a handy monster or similar since then. It is only because of the onset of the Iron Age backed up with technology (Obtained by scientific method) that such a craft of that size is possible.

This is only a cursory look at the problems with this story and the only way they could have been overcome was with magic. If this is the case, what was the point?

And what was the point of drowning all the pregnant women and young children in an act of gigantic infanticide and abortion.

And what crime did the animals (Many which were highly sentient creatures) commit to be treated in such a brutal manner?

Is there a message of love and goodness hidden in all this that we should be aware of??
 

brother Willi

New member
Originally posted by D the Atheist
One Eyed Jack asked what are some of his beliefs that I question.

The Ark story cannot be justified by a call to some recent book or other that has not had proper scientific scrutiny.

It would not be possible for Noah to gather two and seven of certain kinds of animals from all over the planet. This could not ETC ETC ETC

If you realy want answers, there are MANY creation web sites.
If you have an open mind, here are a few thoughts from drdino.com

It would take 4.4 billion cubic kilometers of water to cover Mt. Everest. Where did the water come from to flood the earth?
Answer:


This question also assumes that the pre-flood world was like the world is today. The Bible states clearly that the water was 15 cubits over the tallest mountain. Sea-shell fossils have been found on top of mountain ranges all over the world. The top of Mt. Everest is covered with petrified, closed clams. They had to be buried alive to be petrified in the closed position. This was definitely a worldwide flood. The Bible says in Psalm 104 that as the flood ended the mountains lifted up and the valleys sank down and the water hasted away. Today’s mountain ranges are well above sea level, but this was not the case before the flood. If the earth were smoothed out today, that is, the mountains pressed down and the ocean basins lifted up, there is enough water in the oceans right now to cover the entire earth 8,000 feet deep (approximately 1.5 miles).
All of the water ran off rapidly through the soft sediments into the ocean basins during the last few months of the flood. This would explain the rapid carving of features such as the Grand Canyon and the Bad Lands.


How did Noah take care of all those animals on the Ark?
Answer:


It is reasonable to assume that the larger types of animals on the Ark were young animals because they would weigh less, eat less, and sleep more. Also, after the flood they would live longer to produce more offspring. No one knows for sure how many animals were on the ark. Limiting it down to two of each kind does not mean there were two of each species or variety that we have today. There seem to be about 8000 basic kinds of animal in the world. Also, many animals become dormant, lethargic or even hibernate during stormy weather.
Through the instructions that God gave or through the wisdom of Noah he was given the ability to provide a watering mechanism to disperse water to the animals throughout the ark and possibly even a food distribution system. In Genesis 1:29-30, the Bible teaches that before the flood all the animals were vegetarians so there was not a problem with, for example, the lion trying to eat the lamb. Some have suggested that there was a moon pool, a hole in the center of the floor, which would provide a place for fishing and, if necessary, a way to dispense animal waste from the ark.

The minor problems that the Bible believers cannot always answer are nothing compared to the problems and questions that the evolutionists cannot answer. Although I do not know exactly how Noah took care of all the animals on the ark, I am going to believe the Bible until it is proven wrong instead of doubt the Bible until it is proven right. For someone to reject the Bible and then accept the story that we all came from a rock is silly!


Print this page

How did animals travel from all over to get to the ark?
Answer:


This question assumes that the world before the flood was like the world is today with animals specialized for certain areas. Today the world is 70% water and the oceans separate the continents. Also, some animals only live in a few selected locations. The Bible teaches that before the flood the water was gathered into one place (Genesis 1:9). There was probably one ocean and much more landmass. Also, if the climate was more temperate animals could live in all types of places which means Noah did not have to go gather animals from all over the world. In fact, the Bible says that the animals came to Noah (Genesis 6:20).

WANT MORE?
 

D the Atheist

New member
HillbillyWilli asks if I WANT MORE?

How about HillbillyWilli answer the points I have already made instead of rambling off into canned answer land. I assume you can think for yourself?

I do WANT MORE, but let’s make it reality this time…hey!
 

brother Willi

New member
Originally posted by D the Atheist
HillbillyWilli asks if I WANT MORE?

How about HillbillyWilli answer the points I have already made instead of rambling off into canned answer land. I assume you can think for yourself?

I do WANT MORE, but let’s make it reality this time…hey!
"think for yourself"?
Figger fo' mahse'f? ah doesn't even knows whut thet means. As fo' reality, is thet th' same as re-ality? Thet'd mean t'ality agin ah reckon.
Acshully, I've been debatin' atheists fo' about 2 years now at a diffrunt site. I've been called all so'ts of thin's thar. ah's takin' a li'l ress fum it.



:bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana:
 

brother Willi

New member
Originally posted by D the Atheist
Hillbilly, an off topic request. How does one include the "Originally Posted by so and so" message in a post.
:)
see where it says "quote" on the bottom right of any reply?
just click on that.
good luck:thumb:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top