User Tag List

Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 3456789 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 158

Thread: Convince Me!

  1. #76
    Over 3000 post club PKevman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN.
    Posts
    3,630
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 72 Times in 72 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2153
    Quote Originally Posted by daddyugi
    Hi Chair.

    Thanks for dropping #4. This is going to require a little time and dialog so there will be
    more than a few post, and since I have a family, lead a Bible study, and work, it may not
    be as timely as you want. For this, I apologize. I do need to know where you stand on a
    few items. Do you believe what the Bible (we have the same Bible with the exception of
    the New Testament and I think the 4 books of the Maccabees, I've not read the Torah, so
    I'm not certain about the 4 books of the Maccabees) has to say about 1) creation, 2)
    Adam's sin, 3) the Bibles account up to Abraham, 4) what your belief about the Messiah
    and what His purpose is for coming to the earth? I need to know this, so that I know
    how to start our dialog. I am not going to set out to prove to you your need of a Saviour
    because you have already made up your mind, but I will share my beliefs with you so that
    you might come to understand what I believe and why.

    As to your first point: I am a Christian - I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You find a
    large portion of His teaching in the Old Testament (the Torah) and His new teachings in
    the New Testament. My view of Christianity is, in a nutshell, this: To live a holy life before
    God and before my fellow man. To love the Lord my God with all my heart, mind and soul
    AND to love my neighbor as myself. To hate sin and to do good. If this sounds familiar, it
    should. You find this in the Old Testament. The difference between Judaism and
    Christianity is the view of the Messiah. The Jews look forward to their coming Messiah,
    and Christian look forward to the 2nd coming of their Messiah.

    As to your second point: The evidence/reasoning of my belief you find in the Bible and
    also find in history, archeaology, geology, medical science, astronomy, and personal
    experience which you discount, so I won't use unless you decide differently. I look
    forward to our dialog.

    God bless you.

  2. #77
    Over 3000 post club PKevman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN.
    Posts
    3,630
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 72 Times in 72 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2153
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    TRANSLATION: When you share your pearls with me, I am going to mock you.

    Any post that ends with a "I don't expect to be changed in my thinking." or a "no matter what evidence you present I will not change my mind." or "I don't care what you say it wont make any difference." should be a warning that the poster's only intention is to waste your time.

    I might be interested in participating in this discussion, but I would honestly like to know ahead of time if Knight's assessment is correct. I kind of tend to agree with him on this. It seems to me that if all you will do is mock and avoid discussing things, then many would find it to be a waste of time.

    Anyways, please let us know that you will be reasonable and discuss things openly, even if you don't agree with the points given.

    I think it would also be helpful to those taking the "chair challenge" to know what TYPE of Judaism you embrace. Are you liberal, conservative, etc...I have met Jews on all sides of the spectrum. Also, are you actually Jewish? Raised Jewish from childhood, etc....

    These would all be important aspects to discussing this issue with you.

    God bless.

  3. #78
    Journeyman Kimberlyann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    137
    Pastor Kevin,

    I am sure the intent of this thread isn't to mock Christians.

    Aren't we supposed to " ... sanctify the Lord God* in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" ?(1 Peter 3:15 NKJ)

  4. #79
    Over 3000 post club PKevman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN.
    Posts
    3,630
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 72 Times in 72 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2153
    Sure Kimberly, but if you pour yourself into answering someone's questions and they mock you and use diversionary tactics rather than openly discussing an issue it is exruciating and frustrating. I for one do not want to waste my time. So I can understand why Knight thought that way exactly. Did you ask him why he thought it would be a thread mocking Christians? Or do you just like to argue with me??

  5. #80
    Old Timer mighty_duck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    Posts
    418
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorkevin30
    Sure Kimberly, but if you pour yourself into answering someone's questions and they mock you and use diversionary tactics rather than openly discussing an issue it is exruciating and frustrating. I for one do not want to waste my time. So I can understand why Knight thought that way exactly. Did you ask him why he thought it would be a thread mocking Christians? Or do you just like to argue with me??
    pastorkevin30,

    If you read through this thread, you will notice that chair has been very straightforward in his replies. You will not catch him mocking your answers (as long as they are reasonable arguments to make to a non-Christian), or use diviversionary tactics.
    It looks like the intent of his opening remarks was not to imply such an attitude, but to set expectations. If, for example, you asked to understand a non-Christian position (such as Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism etc), you would not really expect to be convinced out of your espoused Christian beliefs. If an argument came along that was so strong it rocked your religious foundations, you may be convinced, but that is not to be expected.

    I am curious to the actual arguments (I think this was chair's intent). If these can be summed up with things like "because the NT says so" or "so you can go to heaven" like Aimiel did in his last two posts, they are very uninteresting arguments to a non-believer.

  6. #81
    Journeyman Kimberlyann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorkevin30
    Sure Kimberly, but if you pour yourself into answering someone's questions and they mock you and use diversionary tactics rather than openly discussing an issue it is exruciating and frustrating. I for one do not want to waste my time. So I can understand why Knight thought that way exactly. Did you ask him why he thought it would be a thread mocking Christians? Or do you just like to argue with me??
    I'm not trying to argue with you.

    I don't see how a opportunity it witness to someone could be a waste of time. Perhaps Chair is sincerely looking for answers?

  7. #82
    Over 3000 post club PKevman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN.
    Posts
    3,630
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 72 Times in 72 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2153
    And that is all I was interested in finding out. If it were just a search for answers then that would be different, but he clearly stated in the beginning that his mind was made up and he just looked at it as an intellectual exercise.

    God bless.

  8. #83
    Journeyman Kimberlyann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    137
    Chair,

    I feel I am out of my league but I will attempt to at least point you in the right direction. I hope this helps.

    It is my understanding that Yochanan (John) convinced his followers that Y'shua was the Messiah by showing how He fulfilled every detail of the Spring Feasts of the LORD, just like they had been rehearsed for thousands of years. With this in mind please consider reading The Gospel of John and see if it helps put it in a new perspective.


    "Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;" Col 2:16-17


    Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matt. 5:17

  9. #84
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    When you see a cross which covers the sky, from one end of the horizon to the other, and millions of Christians being snatched up, to meet with The Lord Jesus in the air, and are left behind, to face the worldwide control of this earth by Satan's incarnation, you'll consider The Son of Man in a different light. In that day you will see an entire nation (Israel) become Christian in one day, as The Lord prophecied. In that day though, the price of Christianity will be martyrdom. Those who will not receive the mark of the beast (which many believe to be a mind-controlling chip implanted in thier flesh) will be beheaded. Lots of luck with that.
    Now I see why you have that star-wars photo representing you. You live in fantasy land.
    Enjoy!

  10. #85
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustard Seed
    The worshipers of Baal and Pharoah's court thought Elijah and Moses respectively were just plain silly, until, of course, they could no longer do such.

    It's basically the same. I do not need another demonstration for myself. But let you call upon your God to give you an answer as to the sufficiency of your knowledge and present efforts to gain salvation and I'll do the same.

    I don't think you are correct, yet I challenge you to apply the same test to your claims of God that I do.
    Well, sometimes there are things that appear silly, but are true. But very often something that looks silly actually is. Rewritiing the story of the Old Testament into a Mormon story is an interesting form of fiction.

    Bulls (and my time) are expensive. I won't waste them on every alternate religion or cult that shows up.

  11. #86
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustard Seed
    BTW--

    One of my best friends is Bahai. I've always wanted to see their building and gardens there on Carmel. Is it as good as the pictures chair?
    The Bahai gardens are amazing. NO doubt about it.

  12. #87
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by daddyugi
    Hi Chair.

    Thanks for dropping #4. This is going to require a little time and dialog so there will be
    more than a few post, and since I have a family, lead a Bible study, and work, it may not
    be as timely as you want. For this, I apologize. I do need to know where you stand on a
    few items. Do you believe what the Bible (we have the same Bible with the exception of
    the New Testament and I think the 4 books of the Maccabees, I've not read the Torah, so
    I'm not certain about the 4 books of the Maccabees) has to say about 1) creation, 2)
    Adam's sin, 3) the Bibles account up to Abraham, 4) what your belief about the Messiah
    and what His purpose is for coming to the earth? I need to know this, so that I know
    how to start our dialog. I am not going to set out to prove to you your need of a Saviour
    because you have already made up your mind, but I will share my beliefs with you so that
    you might come to understand what I believe and why.

    As to your first point: I am a Christian - I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You find a
    large portion of His teaching in the Old Testament (the Torah) and His new teachings in
    the New Testament. My view of Christianity is, in a nutshell, this: To live a holy life before
    God and before my fellow man. To love the Lord my God with all my heart, mind and soul
    AND to love my neighbor as myself. To hate sin and to do good. If this sounds familiar, it
    should. You find this in the Old Testament. The difference between Judaism and
    Christianity is the view of the Messiah. The Jews look forward to their coming Messiah,
    and Christian look forward to the 2nd coming of their Messiah.

    As to your second point: The evidence/reasoning of my belief you find in the Bible and
    also find in history, archeaology, geology, medical science, astronomy, and personal
    experience which you discount, so I won't use unless you decide differently. I look
    forward to our dialog.

    God bless you.
    I do not take everything in the BIble literally. To your specific questions:

    1. I do not take the Creation story literally. The Bible is not a cookbook on how to create a world. The main message is WHO created, not HOW.
    2. In the Genesis story, Adam sinned. That is, he disobeyed God. I do not believe, however, that his sin tainted us all.
    3. Account up to Abraham- again, I am not sure that everything there is to be taken literally.
    4. The Messiah is the future King of teh Jews who will come and redeem the Jews. This is a physical thing, and is not connected to sin in any way. This is one of teh main points where we differ from Christianity.

  13. #88
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by mighty_duck
    pastorkevin30,

    If you read through this thread, you will notice that chair has been very straightforward in his replies. You will not catch him mocking your answers (as long as they are reasonable arguments to make to a non-Christian), or use diviversionary tactics.
    It looks like the intent of his opening remarks was not to imply such an attitude, but to set expectations. If, for example, you asked to understand a non-Christian position (such as Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism etc), you would not really expect to be convinced out of your espoused Christian beliefs. If an argument came along that was so strong it rocked your religious foundations, you may be convinced, but that is not to be expected.

    I am curious to the actual arguments (I think this was chair's intent). If these can be summed up with things like "because the NT says so" or "so you can go to heaven" like Aimiel did in his last two posts, they are very uninteresting arguments to a non-believer.
    Thanks, Duck. You have gotten the gist of my position.

    As far as "diversionary tactics" and the like: I have no intention on doing so. It sometimes may look like that to somebody because I will insist on using the original Hebrew text, which he does not have direct access to. Also, I read the verses in context, without the Christian bias (admitting that I may have my own bias). Thus, things that seem obvious to someone who already believes, may not be obvious at all to me. This can lead to some major misunderstandings.

  14. #89
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,754
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 836 Times in 598 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    200427
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorkevin30
    I might be interested in participating in this discussion, but I would honestly like to know ahead of time if Knight's assessment is correct. I kind of tend to agree with him on this. It seems to me that if all you will do is mock and avoid discussing things, then many would find it to be a waste of time.

    Anyways, please let us know that you will be reasonable and discuss things openly, even if you don't agree with the points given.

    I think it would also be helpful to those taking the "chair challenge" to know what TYPE of Judaism you embrace. Are you liberal, conservative, etc...I have met Jews on all sides of the spectrum. Also, are you actually Jewish? Raised Jewish from childhood, etc....

    These would all be important aspects to discussing this issue with you.

    God bless.
    I am what is called an "Orthodox Jew", or more specifically a "Modern Orthodox Jew". I was born into an observant, Orthodox family, learned in Jewish schools, and remain observant to this day.

    By "Orthodox" I mean that I follow the rules of Rabbinical Judiasm, which you may consider as derived from the teachings of the Pharisees (yes, I know that they got bad press in the New Testament).

    I am also a Chemist. I live in Israel - I moved here 25 years ago.

  15. #90
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Chair, any reply to my last post?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us