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Thread: Convince Me!

  1. #31
    Journeyman Kimberlyann's Avatar
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    Chair,

    I can tell you what I believe about Y'shua, but I can't convince you, that's the Father's job. He's the one to do the calling, dragging and choosing.

    "No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him…" (John 6:44

    "Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).


    (You already know I believe this will eventually include all mankind)

    "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).


    Here are a handful of Messianic Prophecies that I believe Y'shua fulfilled.



    The scepter shall not pass from the tribe of Judah until the Messiah comes. In other words, He will come before Israel loses its right to judge her own people. The patriarch Jacob prophecied this:

    The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (Genesis 49:10)

    As Dr. Henry M. Morris' The Defender's Bible explains:

    This important prophecy has been strikingly fulfilled. Although Judah was neither Jacob's firstborn son nor the son who would produce the priestly tribe, he was the son through whom God would fulfill His promises to Israel and to the world. The leadership, according to Jacob, was to go to Judah, but this did not happen for over 600 years. Moses came from Levi, Joshua from Ephraim, Gideon from Manasseh, Samson from Dan, Samuel from Ephraim and Saul from Benjamin. But when David finally became king, Judah held the scepter and did not relinquish it until after Shiloh came. "Shiloh" is a name for the Messiah, probably related to the Hebrew word for "peace" (shalom) and meaning in effect, "the one who brings peace."

    According to the Jewish historian Josephus, the Sanhedrin of Israel lost the right to truly judge its own people when it lost the right to pass death penalties in 11 A.D. (Josephus, Antiquities, Book 17, Chapter 13). Jesus Christ was certainly born before 11 A.D.

    He will come while the Temple of Jerusalem is standing ( Malachi 3:1; Psalm 118:26; Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 11:13; Haggai 2:7-9). Fulfilled: Matthew 21:12, etc. (Note: The Temple did not exist at certain periods in Jewish history, and it was finally destroyed in 70 A.D.)

    He will perform many miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6). Fulfillment: See list of "Miracles Recorded in the Gospels".

    He will open the eyes of the blind (Isa. 29:18). Fulfillment: Matt 9:27-31; 12:22; 20:29; Mark 8:22-26; 10:46; Luke 11:14; 18:35; John 9:1-7.

    He will speak in parables (Psalm 78:2). Fulfillment: Matthew 13:34, etc.

    The Gentiles will believe in Him, while His own people (the Jews) will reject him ( Isaiah 8:14; 28:16; 49:6; 50:6; 60:3; Psalms 22:7-8; 118:22). Fulfillment: 1 Peter 2:7, etc.

    I wanted to keep this brief to honor your request. If your interested in the rest of the article please click on the link below.

    God bless.

    http://www.christiananswers.net/dict...rophecies.html
    I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for their religion -
    I have shudder'd at it.
    I shudder no more.
    I could be martyr'd for my religion
    Love is my religion
    And I could die for that.
    I could die for you.
    ~ by John Keats ~

  2. #32
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
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    Kimberlyann, hypothetically speaking, if Jesus did not exist, how difficult would it have been for an author, constructing a fictitious story of the messiah, to look back at messianic prophecies and simply write in their fulfillment?

    Also, miracles in the gospels don't really prove much. It has been established that Matthew and Luke relied heavily and primarily on Mark as the source of their gospels and eyewitnesses would not have had to do that, but Mark wasn't an eyewitness either...

    It would have been no great literary feat for the prophecies to be fictitiously fulfilled by a fictitious character and for miracles to have been performed by this characer. Have you seen Superman Returns, or even the originals? Superman performs some miraculous stuff in those movies, but it certainly doesn't prove that he's real.
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  3. #33
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    I think its great how almost no one has addressed the OP. Its great how you people intentionally go off topic and derail the thread.

    Do you guys PM eachother and make up hit lists, or is it some unspoken connection that all of you have? Is that the unity the Holy Spirit said would happen? The collective ability to ignore the questions people ask and side step around every thing?

    Cause if so, that just makes you underhanded. And thats not very Christian.

    TheDude is back abiding.
    This aggression will not stand, man.

    So make your point, your making me tired all over...

    Be warned, if you dont, I will pick you apart and leave you on the rocks for the buzzards and the wild dogs to rend your body to its former state of nothing.

    I'll be back.

  4. #34
    Journeyman OlDove's Avatar
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    chair
    i was raised Christian. within its teachings i found/learned how to forgive, love those i dont like, the golden rule.

    i also found/learned as a group, we aint that much different then any other group. look inside your self. find a peacefull you. faith or no faith. GOD LOVES YOU
    THIS COULD BE HEAVEN, OR THIS COULD BE HELL

  5. #35
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    Convince me that Christianity is true.
    "Luke 4:12, Jesus answering, said to him, "It has been said,'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"

    Also, faith comes by conviction, not convicing.

  6. #36
    Old Timer Cracked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude
    I think its great how almost no one has addressed the OP. Its great how you people intentionally go off topic and derail the thread.
    'You people' must mean Christians trying to help, trying to, "Convince me that Christianity is true" . Looks like the 'Jesus doesn't exist' crowd are the ones derailing the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude
    Do you guys PM eachother and make up hit lists, or is it some unspoken connection that all of you have? Is that the unity the Holy Spirit said would happen? The collective ability to ignore the questions people ask and side step around every thing?
    Much like your collective ability to neg rep those same Christians trying to contribute - those trying to explain from a Christian perspective what is 'convincing'.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude
    Cause if so, that just makes you underhanded. And thats not very Christian.
    The only 'underhanded' thing I see here is the anti-Christian sentiment in a thread where it does not belong, and wasn't asked for in the first place.
    Last edited by Cracked; October 4th, 2006 at 11:03 PM.
    "Haven't seen the back of us yet..."

  7. #37
    Journeyman eisenreich's Avatar
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    Knight's back on, bump for him-


    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Yes.

    You will never hear me say... "I don't expect to be changed in my thinking." or "no matter what evidence you present I will not change my mind." or "I don't care what you say it wont make any difference."

    Therefore, my attitude is indeed "different".
    As AS has already deftly pointed out, you were less than welcoming to an honest discussion on the historicity of Jesus. Considering Jesus' existence as the son of God is the prerequisite for all of your theological arguments and the basis of your life, there is "no evidence [we could] present that would change your mind".

    Tell me I'm wrong. Either I'm wrong or you're a hypocrite for your statement directed towards chair, which is it? If my name is red by morning, we'll know who was right..
    "The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it." - William James

  8. #38
    Super Moderator Jefferson's Avatar
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    chair:

    What is your interpretation of Daniel 9:25?

    "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

    Christians view it as follows: Gabriel splits the first sixty-nine weeks into seven weeks (forty-nine years) and sixty-two weeks (434 years). During the forty-nine years from 457 to 408 BC, Jerusalem was being rebuilt. After this time Jerusalem was a fully functioning trade center and fortress. This fulfills the prophecy exactly.

    Adding the 434 years to 408 BC brings us to AD 27 (adding one year for passing over the non-existent year 0). During this year, John baptized Jesus and His ministry began.

    How do Jews view this verse?
    WARNING: Graphic video here.

  9. #39
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eisenreich
    Knight's back on, bump for him-



    As AS has already deftly pointed out, you were less than welcoming to an honest discussion on the historicity of Jesus. Considering Jesus' existence as the son of God is the prerequisite for all of your theological arguments and the basis of your life, there is "no evidence [we could] present that would change your mind".

    Tell me I'm wrong. Either I'm wrong or you're a hypocrite for your statement directed towards chair, which is it? If my name is red by morning, we'll know who was right..
    Is your brain fried?

    I said YOU WILL NOT HEAR ME SAY.... (those things) That's the opposite of hypocrisy.

    You see, chair and allsmiles did the same thing. They both wanted people to massage their thread yet their stance was no matter what was said it was predetermined that it would be insufficient therefore they are a waste of time (at least on that specific issue).

    Do you get it yet?
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  10. #40
    Journeyman eisenreich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Is your brain fried?

    I said YOU WILL NOT HEAR ME SAY.... (those things) That's the opposite of hypocrisy.

    You see, chair and allsmiles did the same thing. They both wanted people to massage their thread yet their stance was no matter what was said it was predetermined that it would be insufficient therefore they are a waste of time (at least on that specific issue).

    Do you get it yet?
    So it's possible that AS and I could provide evidence that Jesus was a myth that could possibly convince you that we are correct?
    "The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it." - William James

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair
    Take the Chair challenge! Convince me that Christianity is true.

    There are some rules:

    1. Please define, BRIEFLY, what you mean by Christianity before you start. There are differing views about this, so I would like to know what exactly you are trying to convince me of.
    I believe that Christianity is best described as a dynamic relationship with the Living God, through The Living Savior, by The Holy Ghost.
    2. Give some evidence or reasoning for your statements.
    Without Christ, you have no hope of even communicating with The Lord, Who will not tolerate sin.
    3. Avoid circular reasoning. If you want to prove something from the Bible, you will have to convince me that the Bible is true first.
    If you don't believe The Bible, you're likely to swallow anything, but no one can ever convince you That God's Word is Truth, you have to believe Him for yourself.
    4. Please be brief. I get lost in long-winded lengthy posts.
    Me too.
    5. Personal experience ( I feel God) won't work with me, so don't bother.
    K.
    6. Don't assume that I agree with you on anything before I have actually said so. Some ideas that you think are held by everybody but be completely foreign to me.
    Honestly - I view this as an intellectual exercise. I don't expect to be changed in my thinking. But you never know...
    Precisely why most of the unbelievers come to TOL, they expect God to show up and 'poof' them into being believers, or if (as they have been led to believe) He doesn't exist, for nothing at all to happen. Those with an open mind, who believe that He exists, who seek and search for Him with all of their heart find Him, every single time. He said so Himself, and He doesn't lie.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

  12. #42
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eisenreich
    So it's possible that AS and I could provide evidence that Jesus was a myth that could possibly convince you that we are correct?
    Of course.

    Christianity is falsifiable.

    And if you feel compelled that the Jesus Myth is coherent that's your prerogative. Allsmiles on the other hand believes that the Jesus Myth is fact and NO EVIDENCE whatsoever could prove otherwise. In other words... to allsmiles the Jesus Myth is NOT falsifiable. There is no reason to discuss (in a serious manner) anyone who holds a position like that.
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  13. #43
    LIFETIME MEMBER Yorzhik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair
    I have never tried to conviince anybody here to become Jewish, and I ain't gonna start now. Many have tried to convince me of the truth of Christianity, thoiugh, which is why I opened this thread.
    This should be a problem for you. Either you don't think that Judism is correct and it won't help anyone. Or you think Judism is correct and it will help your fellow man... but you don't care about your fellow man.

    Which is it?
    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

  14. #44
    LIFETIME MEMBER Yorzhik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbang123
    some friendly advice from a former christian - some here may try to convince you that you should become a christians because christianity (in their opinion) makes more sense any other religious option currently on the market.
    Including athiesm/agnosticism. It is better to state it: Christianity makes more sense than any other worldview.

    it goes without saying that that in and of itself doesn't mean that christianity is true - christianity may just be the most credible selection in an un-credible lot.
    That would be true if you include your selection as well.

    *Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains
    by John W. Loftus

    http://www.amazon.com/Why-Rejected-...9983034?ie=UTF8

    http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-...145338-31415aaa
    Subtitle: How the Settled View Kills
    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

  15. #45
    Over 500 post club Real Sorceror's Avatar
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    Including athiesm/agnosticism. It is better to state it: Christianity makes more sense than any other worldview.


    ps. Don't mind me. Carry on.

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