How Protestants got sucked into the Rapture

1Mind1Spirit · Oct 13, 2015

Angel4Truth said:
Already proven false -

Irenaeus(130 ad to 202 ad) in his writing "Against Heresies - 5.29"

Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) In "Treatises of Cyprian":

Ephraim The Syrian (306 AD – 373 AD) In his work, "On The Last Times 2", he wrote:

Then of course the bible describes it and thats where it came from, so anyone claiming the darby junk is just flat out wrong, its long been debunked.

So Darby and LaHaye rate right up there with the wolves who entered in right after the demise of Peter and Paul.

AKA Catholics.

In case you didn't realize it the protestants have spent several hundred years heaping teachers to themselves.

Darby and his ilk have now popularized dispensationism to the point it has spread like evil leaven throughout most protestant denominations.

It matters little if they were the originators of it.:deadhorse:

Danoh · Oct 13, 2015

Livelystone said:
During your studies of the scriptures did you come across the Lord's Prayer that teaches us to pray for His Kingdom to come to earth rather than the other way around as the rapture doctrine teaches and is leading many within the Body of Christ to fall for?

Usually the red letter words mean more to those who need help understanding the rest of the scriptures

Just saying,

This side of the Lord's personally hand picked Apostle to the Gentiles; those red letters are the mark of a big fat "F" on your kind of thinking, Livelystone; for your failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

Angel4Truth · Oct 13, 2015

1Mind1Spirit said:
So Darby and LaHaye rate right up there with the wolves who entered in right after the demise of Peter and Paul.

AKA Catholics.

In case you didn't realize it the protestants have spent several hundred years heaping teachers to themselves.

Darby and his ilk have popularized dispensationism to the point it has spread like evil leaven throughout most protestant denominations.

It matters little if they were the originators of it.:deadhorse:

There was no Roman Catholic church in 100 ad. I have proven beyond any doubt that the rapture teaching, didnt start with darby like some of you falsely claim, it was taught very early on and is in the bible- you and some others though you know it has long been debunked yet continue to spout what you know is a lie.

This thread is about the rapture, if you wish to discuss dispensationalism with me, direct me to your thread about it, i am here to debunk the false claim made in the op, which ive done.

Danoh · Oct 13, 2015

1Mind1Spirit said:
So Darby and LaHaye rate right up there with the wolves who entered in right after the demise of Peter and Paul.

AKA Catholics.

In case you didn't realize it the protestants have spent several hundred years heaping teachers to themselves.

Darby and his ilk have now popularized dispensationism to the point it has spread like evil leaven throughout most protestant denominations.

It matters little if they were the originators of it.:deadhorse:

Might as well conclude the same about Martin Luther for letting the Rom. 5: 1- 2 cat - OSAS - out of the bag; just because so many abuse it.

1Mind1Spirit · Oct 13, 2015

Angel4Truth said:
Just saying, you miss that the rapture and second coming are 2 different events. He doesn't come to earth at the rapture. We are caught to up to meet Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So you reckon these folks are still walkin' around here 2,000 years later?

Matthew 16:28 KJV

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

WonderfulLordJesus · Oct 13, 2015

Livelystone said:
During your studies of the scriptures did you come across the Lord's Prayer that teaches us to pray for His Kingdom to come to earth rather than the other way around as the rapture doctrine teaches and is leading many within the Body of Christ to fall for?

Usually the red letter words mean more to those who need help understanding the rest of the scriptures

Just saying,

Sometimes, you just don't know where to start. It's probably something you shouldn't get "caught up" in. Just saying.

steko · Oct 13, 2015

Livelystone said:
During your studies of the scriptures did you come across the Lord's Prayer that teaches us to pray for His Kingdom to come to earth rather than the other way around as the rapture doctrine teaches and is leading many within the Body of Christ to fall for?

Usually the red letter words mean more to those who need help understanding the rest of the scriptures

Just saying,

The Lord Jesus said during His earthly ministry that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Paul affirmed this:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The Lord taught believers in Israel to pray, 'thy Kingdom come', because the Kingdom of Heaven is and always has been to natiional Israel according to prophecy and of course it will be on earth, with the twelve sitting on twelve thrones ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel and Messiah Jesus on David's throne.

After describing the ministry of the Lord Jesus to the circumcision, Paul then says this:

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles[natiions] might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

The red letters are Christ's ministry to the circumcision/Israel and is according to prophecy.

Paul's ministry, in lieu of Israel's rejection of the Kingdom, is to the natiions and is according to mystery[things hitherto unrevealed].

One of those mysteries is the change of our[those in the Body of Christ] physical form in the blink of an eye, and being gathered up by the Lord Himself to meet Him in the atmosphere.

The elect of Israel are gathered by angels at the Lord's second coming to earth.

Angel4Truth · Oct 13, 2015

1Mind1Spirit said:
So you reckon these folks are still walkin' around here 2,000 years later?

Matthew 16:28 KJV

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Nope, i think you don't know how to rightly divide, Jesus came into His kingdom at the Resurrection.

Does your bible not contain that part?

1Mind1Spirit · Oct 13, 2015

Danoh said:
Might as well conclude the same about Martin Luther for letting the Rom. 5: 1- 2 cat - OSAS - out of the bag; just because so many abuse it.

If the shoe fits.:chuckle:

Danoh · Oct 13, 2015

steko said:
The Lord Jesus said during His earthly ministry that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Paul affirmed this:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The Lord taught believers in Israel to pray, 'thy Kingdom come', because the Kingdom of Heaven is and always has been to natiional Israel according to prophecy and of course it will be on earth, with the twelve sitting on twelve thrones ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel and Messiah Jesus on David's throne.

After describing the ministry of the Lord Jesus to the circumcision, Paul then says this:

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles[natiions] might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

The red letters are Christ's ministry to the circumcision/Israel and is according to prophecy.

Paul's ministry, in lieu of Israel's rejection of the Kingdom, is to the natiions and is according to mystery[things hitherto unrevealed].

One of those mysteries is the change of our[those in the Body of Christ] physical form in the blink of an eye, and being gathered up by the Lord Himself to meet Him in the atmosphere.

The elect of Israel are gathered by angels at the Lord's second coming to earth.

This message approved by 2 Tim. 2:15

Angel4Truth · Oct 13, 2015

Oh and if you want to get real technical about it:

Luke 24:50-53

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Im pretty sure thats saying they saw it while they were still alive, you think?

tetelestai · Oct 13, 2015

steko said:
I've said many times before, "I can understand why believers argue about the timing of the rapture, but I can't, for the life of me, understand why they deny the fact of the rapture".

Not one Christian ever taught about a "rapture" before John Nelson Darby.

steko · Oct 13, 2015

1Mind1Spirit said:
So you reckon these folks are still walkin' around here 2,000 years later?

Matthew 16:28 KJV

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Peter confirms that they saw the Kingdom coming when they saw His glory when they were with Him in the holy mount at the transfiguration.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

tetelestai · Oct 13, 2015

Angel4Truth said:
Just saying, you miss that the rapture and second coming are 2 different events.

"The Coming of the Lord" is one event.

Yet, Dispensationalists such as yourself claim the Apostle Paul used "The Coming of the Lord" to describe two different events (rapture & second coming)

tetelestai · Oct 13, 2015

steko said:
Peter confirms that they saw the Kingdom coming when they saw His glory when they were with Him in the holy mount at the transfiguration.

Read the previous verse steko

(Matt 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Was every man rewarded according to his works at the Transfiguration?

If not, then Matt 16:28 does not describe the Transfiguration.

steko · Oct 13, 2015

tetelestai said:
Not one Christian ever taught about a "rapture" before John Nelson Darby.

The Apostle Paul did.

glorydaz · Oct 13, 2015

steko said:
The Apostle Paul did.

:thumb:

tetelestai · Oct 13, 2015

steko said:
The Apostle Paul did.

Nope

John Nelson Darby invented the "rapture"

Darby had to come up with a way for the Christians to be removed from the earth so God could pick back up with the Jews like it was 30AD all over again.

Margaret McDonald told Darby about her dream that Jesus came back twice. Darby took Margret McDonald's dream, and founded his Dipsensationalism around her dream.

Dispensationalism was invented during "the age of the cults".

steko · Oct 13, 2015

tetelestai said:
"The Coming of the Lord" is one event.

Yet, Dispensationalists such as yourself claim the Apostle Paul used "The Coming of the Lord" to describe two different events (rapture & second coming)

The word 'parousia' is a Greek word which is translated 'coming' in English.
The word 'parousia' was a Greek word long before the NT was written.
Just because the word 'coming/parousia' is used of Christ gathering the BOC to Himself and also used of His second coming to earth, does not mean that these are the same 'parousia' event.

If I said, "I'm coming to TOL in the morning and I'll be coming to TOL tomorrow night, obviously doesn't mean that I'm coming simultaneously at both times.
Preterists have taken the common Greek word 'parousia' and turned it into a 'title'..... nearly an idol.

steko · Oct 13, 2015

tetelestai said:
Read the previous verse steko

(Matt 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Was every man rewarded according to his works at the Transfiguration?

If not, then Matt 16:28 does not describe the Transfiguration.

The transfiguration was a pre-vision of the Kingdom coming and was provided specifically for the eyewitnesses Peter, James and John.

I'll accept Peter's words concerning his witnessing the Lord's power and coming, over yours.

How Protestants got sucked into the Rapture

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