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Thread: Battle Talk ~ BR XI

  1. #91
    Journeyman hitek357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Turbo is on the clock, he has until Friday the 22nd 1:27AM (MDT) to make his second round post.
    That should give Turbo plenty of time to relax, since he will only need about 30 minutes to demolish the Sunday School-level arguments made by Theo.
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    Over 1000 post club JoyfulRook's Avatar
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    Hey! Weren't you supposed to forgive me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primghar
    Well, Dread Helm, since you seemingly ignore and refuse to answer any of the questions I have asked you, I am gonna go ahead and follow your lead.
    I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you asked any questions... I'll look back through the pages. In the meantime, can you answer my question?
    Last edited by JoyfulRook; September 21st, 2006 at 07:49 PM.
    "I maintain my pride in the face of men, but I abandon it before God, who drew me out of nothingness to make me what I am." - The Count of Monte Cristo

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    Over 1000 post club JoyfulRook's Avatar
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    This must be what you're talking about. My good buddy Wamba answered your questions to my satisfaction (to whom you didn't reply), but I can take another shot at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primghar
    I know she was talking about overpopulation in prisons. What about the people who are in prison for theft--should we kill them as well?
    No, we need to use biblical methods such as restitution.

    I am so confused. Why do you have such a "no tolerance" attitude?
    Because we shouldn't just "forgive and forget" any punishments.
    Weren't all Christians given a chance to accept Christ; why should we take that chance away from anyone else?
    Criminals have to pay the consequences of their crimes: Christian or no Christian.
    Are we more "worthy" of being saved than others?
    No. Every one should have the chance to be saved. Did the murderer's victim get that chance? Yes, but it was certainly cut short. The murderer needs to pay the God ordained consequences of his crime. He will have the chance to convert...right before he gets a short drop and a sudden stop.
    Christ taught many times that we should forgive others, so I am wondering why you (or any other Christian) is exempt from doing that.
    You're right. Christ did teach to forgive. But Jesus was talking about individual relationships, not government policy toward criminals. Besides, you can only forgive someone to the extent they have hurt you.
    I have a question for you, Dread Helm. What does Matthew 18:21-35 mean to you?
    1. This is again talking about individuals, not Government policy. If someone sins against you (ie. lies) and then repents and asks for forgiveness, certainly forgive him. But if a man rapes a woman (a crime), and he is later caught and then repents and asks for forgiveness, the woman can forgive him but he has in no way voidated his punishment.
    2. Jesus was preaching from under the Law: i.e. "If you don't forgive, you won't be forgiven." We are under Grace, therefore Paul's teaching: "Forgive others, because God has forgiven you" is much more applicable to us dealing with other individuals.
    Now that I've answered all of your questions, please begin to answer my new line of questioning: Do you agree that God authorized Governments to punish criminals?
    "I maintain my pride in the face of men, but I abandon it before God, who drew me out of nothingness to make me what I am." - The Count of Monte Cristo

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    Journeyman Nomad's Avatar
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    holy cow Turbo rattled off a lot of questions..Im not convinced that thats too much of a strength though, being short is a good thing

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    Over 500 post club erinmarie's Avatar
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    I'm just shocked my own brother in law hasn't seen Kill Bill! I loved that movie!

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    That was a very long response by Turbo, with lots of points being made. Yet despite there being "so much" I found "so little" to disagree with.

    I have been a believer since 1986, and those cliches were around back then. "If someone sins, forgive him", and "do not judge, lest you be judged."

    I heard a preacher on the radio, just yesterday ask; "Where do Christians get most of their wrong doctrine?" His answer- "The Bible"......and its true!

    Fortunately back in 1986 I got saved in a wonderful little Calvary Chapel, and we had a wonderful preacher who really taught us to study our Bibles, ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom and insight, and notice "context" and "every" word. Therefore when confronted with theses cliches, back then and since, I came to the same understanding as Turbo has expressed in his response.

    The only disagreement I would have with Turbo, would be with the Sabbath, which is not the topic of this Battle Royale anyway. However I was pleasently surprised to see that he correctly identified it as, mowing your lawn on Saturday, and not Sunday, which is a common mistake of most of today's Christians.

    I personally do not see how theo_victus is going to make any points by debating scriptures, "point by point". I am waiting to see how he develops the act and concept of forgiveness, which he said is his main point, and reason, for being a Christian who is against the DP.

    In my mind that is the only way he could make any headway with me. I will wait and see!

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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo
    Since you have stated that the government should punish criminals, I can turn this line of questioning right back on you.

    TurboQ16 Should the government punish people who mow their lawns on Saturday?

    TurboQ17 Is it even sinful for people living today to mow their lawns on Saturday?

    TurboQ18 Should the government imprison all unbelievers (who are all rebellious against God)?

    TurboQ19 How do you determine which actions should be criminal, and what are the things that should mandate punishment from the government?.
    This is my favorite section of the debate so far.

  8. #98
    Who is the stooge now? novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar
    This is my favorite section of the debate so far.
    Yes, there is no doubt that Turbo completely neutralized that portion of Theo's argument.
    Oh, wise guy eh?

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    Who is the stooge now? novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremiah
    That was a very long response by Turbo
    These posts are short compared to recent BR's!

    Actually I am glad the posts are a bit shorter. I can really follow this debate. Turbo packed his 2nd round post with TONS of content and responded brilliantly to Theo's questions. It seems to me Theo has lost his foundation, what does he have left?
    Oh, wise guy eh?

  10. #100
    Over 1500 post club GuySmiley's Avatar
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    I'm anxiously awaiting how theo will explain why the DP is wrong because of repentence and forgiveness, but why all punishment is not wrong for the same reason. Great round by Turbo.
    "I believe in Christianity, as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis

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  11. #101
    Who is the stooge now? novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySmiley
    I'm anxiously awaiting how theo will explain why the DP is wrong because of repentence and forgiveness, but why all punishment is not wrong for the same reason. Great round by Turbo.
    That's exactly what I am saying as well.

    The heart of Theo's argument is that the death penalty is wrong because God wants us to forgive. Yet Theo also maintains that we should punish criminals via other means - where's the forgiveness in that?

    Now that Turbo has ripped the heart out of Theo's argument what does Theo have left?

    Note to all future debaters.... never build your entire argument on a premise than can be dismantled in one sentence.
    Oh, wise guy eh?

  12. #102
    Merely Christian Nineveh's Avatar
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    Wow... Turbo's reply was awsome! He not only pointed out where Christians should stand on the death penalty, but he shot down the "judge not" and "forgive all" clichés
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    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    quite a few formatting errors in turbos post .. has he seen the 'preview' button?

    if he could format properly id say this tournament is over because 'bad formatting' is the only possible argument i see theo having left ...

    dang .. i shouldnt really be the one judging on formatting should i. ..?
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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    This may be a bit off topic but Theo's Karla Faye Tucker story does a tremendous job of describing how going to college, even a "Republican college" ( I can only assume that was supposed to mean conservative), can turn your brain to mush!

  15. #105
    Journeyman hitek357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe
    quite a few formatting errors in turbos post .. has he seen the 'preview' button?

    if he could format properly id say this tournament is over because 'bad formatting' is the only possible argument i see theo having left ...

    dang .. i shouldnt really be the one judging on formatting should i. ..?
    Stipe, you shouldn't judge at all. Didn't you know that?
    Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had. - Michael Crichton

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