Hagee claims Sep. 28 marks 'Hugely Significant Event'

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
How much time between fall of Greece and rise of Rome?

The Roman Empire began 7 years before Alexander the Great died.

The point of Daniel's prophecy was that 4 beasts would control Judah/Jerusalem.

After Alexander the Great died, the Seleucid Empire was a Hellenistic empire ruled by the Seleucid dynasty. They were Greek kings, such as Antiochus III, who ruled over Judah/Jerusalem.

They ruled over Judah/Jerusalem until the Roman Empire ruled over Judah/Jerusalem.

Like I said, everything happened exactly how Daniel said it was going to happen in Daniel Chp 11.

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

Interplanner said:
As I recall, the Maccabean period was in between, but I'll try to grab a link on that.

The Maccabean period was a period of peace for the Jews, however, they were never an autonomous country from the time period between Babylon/Roman Empire.

From Daniel's prophecy until Christ Jesus; Judah/Jerusalem was controlled by Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome (the 4 beasts)

Interplanner · Oct 6, 2015

It may have been a period of peace, but it was not achieved by peace; they had to fight for it. The hero was Phineas from the days of the Exodus and the wandering, for killing a couple where the man was Jewish and the wife was pagan.

lifeisgood · Oct 6, 2015

User Name said:
About 20 years ago, I had a dream one night of someone giving me a copy of a book entitled A Gift of Prophecy. I'd never heard of this book and didn't even know if such a book even existed. It was just a dream. But several days later, the person I dreamed about came up to me and gave me a book. The title of the book was A Gift of Prophecy. The one thing this book mentioned that stood out for me was that we are to pray for the conversion of the soul of Judas.

Does the Bible say we are to pray for a dead person?
Book / verse please. Thank you.

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

Interplanner said:
It may have been a period of peace, but it was not achieved by peace; they had to fight for it.

That's correct, they fought against the Seleucid Empire, and even though they had peace, they were still a province of the Seleucid Empire.

They were a province of the Selecuid Empire until they had their own civil war. During their civil war, Pompeus (Roman General) took over, and made Judah a Roman Province.

As I said, it played out exactly how Daniel wrote in Daniel chp 11

User Name · Oct 6, 2015

lifeisgood said:
Does the Bible say we are to pray for a dead person?
Book / verse please. Thank you.

I didn't say there was a book/verse which says we are to pray for a dead person. I was just telling you what happened. However, in 2 Timothy 1:18, Paul offered up a prayer for the late Onesiphorus, "that he may find mercy from the Lord" on the Day of Judgement. 2 Maccabees 12:39-45 is also worth considering.

Anywho, I'm not here to argue the point, I'm just telling you what happened.

User Name · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
From Daniel's prophecy until Christ Jesus; Judah/Jerusalem was controlled by Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome (the 4 beasts)

tetelestai said:
As I said, it played out exactly how Daniel wrote in Daniel chp 11

I don't buy into hyper-preterism myself, but nor do I buy into hyper-dispensationalism. It does make sense to me that the reason why dispensationalist prognosticators have been so errant in their private interpretations of biblical prophecy (2 Pet 1:20) might be because some or many of those biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled without the dispies even understanding it. So they are now trying to take biblical prophecies and apply them to present-day events when they may have already been fulfilled. It's easy to see how that could lead to false prognostications. And if there's only one thing that dispensationalist commentators have been skilled experts at over the decades, it has been in making false prognostications.

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
Like I said, everything happened exactly how Daniel said it was going to happen in Daniel Chp 11.

Daniel 11
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Who was this about? What covenant?

Grosnick Marowbe · Oct 6, 2015

heir said:
typical slanderous report from a believe notter

Yep

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
It means somewhere different than the other 11 Apostles were going to.

Maybe a modern translation would help you:

(Acts 1:25 NIV) to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.”

I'm pretty sure Revelation alludes to him being in the bottomless pit, perhaps the only man there, for a purpose.

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
Daniel 11
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Who was this about? What covenant?

In 169BC, Antiochus IV built an alter to Zeus at the temple and sacrificed a pig to Zeus.

Later, Antiochus IV declared that everyone in his kingdom (which included Judah) was to be one people with one religion. Antiochus IV stopped the Jews from performing circumcisions, didn't allow them to perform sacrifices at the temple, didn't allow them to observe the Sabbath, and didn't allow them to celebrate their feast days.

Many of the Jews joined Antiochus (because of his flattery), they turned from the OC that God had made with them. These Jews forsook the Law of Moses, and adhered to the religion of Antiochus IV.

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
In 169BC, Antiochus IV built an alter to Zeus at the temple and sacrificed a pig to Zeus.

Later, Antiochus IV declared that everyone in his kingdom (which included Judah) was to be one people with one religion. Antiochus IV stopped the Jews from performing circumcisions, didn't allow them to perform sacrifices at the temple, didn't allow them to observe the Sabbath, and didn't allow them to celebrate their feast days.

Many of the Jews joined Antiochus (because of his flattery), they turned from the OC that God had made with them. These Jews forsook the Law of Moses, and adhered to the religion of Antiochus IV.

Who was the prince of the covenant?

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
I'm pretty sure Revelation alludes to him being in the bottomless pit, perhaps the only man there, for a purpose.

The Bible doesn't specifically say Judas went to the bottomless pit, but if he did, he isn't the only person in the bottomless pit.

The fallen angels are there (2 Peter 2:4), and Satan is currently there.

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
Who was the prince of the covenant?

Onias III

He was the Jewish High Priest at the time.

Onias' had a brother named Joshua. Joshua forsook God, changed his name to a Greek name (Jason), and paid Antiochus IV to remove his brother Onias III.

In 172BC, Antiochus IV had Onias removed, and Jason became the High Priest.

Then a Jewish priest named Menelaus bribed Antiochus IV to make him High Priest, Antiochus IV took the money, removed Jason, and made Menelaus the High Priest.

Like I said, go to a Jewish website, ask a rabbi, read Maccabees, etc. and you will see that Daniel 11 has already taken place.

However, you can't have Daniel chp 11 being fulfilled because it causes too many problems for your Dispensationalism, so you have to put your head in the sand when it comes to actual history so you can cling to Darby's theories.

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
Onias III

He was the Jewish High Priest at the time.

Onias' had a brother named Joshua. Joshua forsook God, changed his name to a Greek name (Jason), and paid Antiochus IV to remove his brother Onias III.

In 172BC, Antiochus IV had Onias removed, and Jason became the High Priest.

Then a Jewish priest named Menelaus bribed Antiochus IV to make him High Priest, Antiochus IV took the money, removed Jason, and made Menelaus the High Priest.

Like I said, go to a Jewish website, ask a rabbi, read Maccabees, etc. and you will see that Daniel 11 has already taken place.

However, you can't have Daniel chp 11 being fulfilled because it causes too many problems for your Dispensationalism, so you have to put your head in the sand when it comes to actual history so you can cling to Darby's theories.

Since when were the priests called princes?

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
The Bible doesn't specifically say Judas went to the bottomless pit, but if he did, he isn't the only person in the bottomless pit.

The fallen angels are there (2 Peter 2:4), and Satan is currently there.

I said he is perhaps the only man there.
Revelation alludes to the son of perdition being there.

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

Daniel 8
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

I find it very difficult to believe that all of these are not the same event, and the same culprit.

SaulToPaul 2 · Oct 6, 2015

tetelestai said:
Maybe not you, but for those of us who have faith in Christ Jesus, we are the children of Abraham.

(Gal 3:29) If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Or perhaps heir and I, like some of the Ephesians, are fellowheirs and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel.

patrick jane · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
Or perhaps heir and I, like some of the Ephesians, are fellowheirs and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel.

I'm a partaker. I partake

tetelestai · Oct 6, 2015

SaulToPaul said:
Since when were the priests called princes?

During the Seleucid Empire.

For example: Simon Maccabeus was known as "Simon the Prince". Simon was both High Priest and the Prince of Judah.

From Wikipedia:

High Priest of Judaea
142 BCE – 135 BCE

Prince of Judaea
141 BCE – 135 BCE

From Jewishencylopedia.com:

Hasmonean prince and high priest; died 135 B.C.; second son of Mattathias. In I Macc. ii. 3 he is called Thassi;

Hagee claims Sep. 28 marks 'Hugely Significant Event'

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