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Thread: Ask the promoter

  1. #31
    Rookie Gavin's Avatar
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    Why do you have that Sartre quote on your signiture?
    Existentialism is a reprehensible and extremely damaging philosophy, in my opinion, but I do find this quote kind of interesting.

    (Note - finding something interesting is not equivalent to agreeing with it.)
    No one ever just picked up the Bible, started reading, and then came to the conclusion that God was not doing signs and wonders anymore and that the gifts of the Holy Spirit had passed away. The doctrine of cessationism did not originate in a careful study of the Scriptures. The doctrine of cessationism originated in experience. -Jack Deere

    By its denying of God's foreknowledge of future free creaturely choices and actions, open theism is vulnerable to the charge of commending as God one whom the true God declares is false and worthless. -Bruce Ware

  2. #32
    Journeyman pereynol's Avatar
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    Ah, does essence really preceed existence, or existence essence?

    (How 'bout that human faculty of will...)

  3. #33
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    Debate on the Trinity

    Gavin, I can be patient. I too will be visiting family during that time, so that is convenient for me as well.
    As far as "informal" debating goes, I have placed my argument before several interested Trinitarian friends (most of them Bible students) as well as discused the matter with some more established Trinitarians. I'm actually well versed in formal debate (six years speech and debate in middle school and high school; I was also the president for a time). I feel adequately prepared for a "Battle Royale" debate on the Trinity (as defined by the Athanasian Creed). All I lack is a firm understanding of the rules (I can obtain that well before January).

    After careful consideration, I have found the Bible to teach that the Father alone is the one God of Israel (YHWH). His Son Jesus had no antenatal existence and was in fact a created being just as I am. In spite of his total humanity, Jesus was chosen by God before the foundation of the world to act as the teacher, the prophet, the high priest, the Davidic king, the savior, and the sacrifice. Jesus was God's plenipotentiary on earth (similar to the angel mentioned in Exodus 23:20-26). This means that Jesus, as God's representative, could act as God without being God (compare Ex. 3:2 with the rest of the passage). (NOTE: By quoting Exodus, I am only making a comparison between the angelic representatives of God and the Son of man as a representative of God- I am by no means equating Jesus with the angels referred to in such passages)
    The Holy Spirit is God's mind and power at work. It is not a separate cognitive and conscious person.

    This is my conclusion from my studies. In grace, BJ Brown

  4. #34
    Rookie Gavin's Avatar
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    Thanks for your patience, BJ.

    So can you confirm this?
    And my other question is whether you accept this as the resolution of this debate: "Scripture teaches the triune nature of God."

    By "Scripture teaches" I mean that AT LEAST it is deducible from Scriptural principles, if not explicitly taught by specific sayings of Scripture. I am assuming from your earlier post that you believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA, correct me if I am wrong.
    And by the "the triune nature of God" I simply mean the historical definition of the trinity. The one God co-eternally exists in three persons - Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

    Can you confirm this?
    NB - I am not using the athanasian creed to define the trinity, I am simply using the historical definition as defined above. I believe the athanasian creed is in harmony with the definition I have provided, but I just wanted to make this clear so the terms will be clearly defined going into the debate. Does this resolution sound good to you?

    Thanks.
    No one ever just picked up the Bible, started reading, and then came to the conclusion that God was not doing signs and wonders anymore and that the gifts of the Holy Spirit had passed away. The doctrine of cessationism did not originate in a careful study of the Scriptures. The doctrine of cessationism originated in experience. -Jack Deere

    By its denying of God's foreknowledge of future free creaturely choices and actions, open theism is vulnerable to the charge of commending as God one whom the true God declares is false and worthless. -Bruce Ware

  5. #35
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    I'm sorry...

    I forgot to answer one or two of your questions.

    You asked:

    And my other question is whether you accept this as the resolution of this debate: "Scripture teaches the triune nature of God."

    By "Scripture teaches" I mean that AT LEAST it is deducible from Scriptural principles, if not explicitly taught by specific sayings of Scripture. I am assuming from your earlier post that you believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA, correct me if I am wrong.

    My reply:

    "Scripture teaches the triune nature of God" is perfect, with you posing as the affirmative and I as the negative.

    I honestly believe that the doctrine of the Trinity CAN in fact "at least" be deduced from the Scriptures (as there are so many studious people who are Trinitarians). However, doing so would forsake hemeneutic principles, the Hebraic milieu of the Scriptures, and the true definitions of certain Hebrew and Greek words (as translations are mere interpretations).

    And I do find the Bible to be the only reliable source for biblical doctrine. In any case, this information would be unnecessary to our debate since our agreed resolution is "Scripture teaches the triune nature of God;" in other words, our question is whether or not Scripture alone teaches the triune nature of God- appeals to church tradition, etc., are superfluous.

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    Athanasian Creed...

    I understand. We will argue from the definition you have presented. One question I have: will you also be presenting the hypothesis that Jesus of Nazareth was "100% God and 100% man?" (i.e., the hypostatic union) Thanks.

  7. #37
    Rookie Gavin's Avatar
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    One question I have: will you also be presenting the hypothesis that Jesus of Nazareth was "100% God and 100% man?" (i.e., the hypostatic union) Thanks.
    Affirmative on the hypostatic union.

    I will contact Knight and let you know about plans for a BR. Cool!
    No one ever just picked up the Bible, started reading, and then came to the conclusion that God was not doing signs and wonders anymore and that the gifts of the Holy Spirit had passed away. The doctrine of cessationism did not originate in a careful study of the Scriptures. The doctrine of cessationism originated in experience. -Jack Deere

    By its denying of God's foreknowledge of future free creaturely choices and actions, open theism is vulnerable to the charge of commending as God one whom the true God declares is false and worthless. -Bruce Ware

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    Thanks!

  9. #39
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    I understand. We will argue from the definition you have presented. One question I have: will you also be presenting the hypothesis that Jesus of Nazareth was "100% God and 100% man?" (i.e., the hypostatic union) Thanks.
    Something about this sounds familar.

  10. #40
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    Question

    Hello ais88 and God bless!-

    Since that time, I have written a book on the subject, and now I would like to discuss the matter would someone else. I would appriciate it if I was not harassed or called inappropriate names.
    Would I be able to get/view this online? Thanks.

  11. #41
    Dee Dee Warren
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    Something about this sounds familar.
    Ms Warren thinks so too.

  12. #42
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    My Book on the Trinity

    AVmetro:

    My book was just completed only a couple of weeks ago. I've been in the midst of the arduous process of editing the first draft. I am still sanding down the rough edges and polishing it up. This may take a while (especially since learning never ceases).
    In any case, when my book is eventually published and made readily available, I will most likely post the title and other relevant information somewhere on this forum. -BJ

  13. #43
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    ais88

    My book was just completed only a couple of weeks ago. I've been in the midst of the arduous process of editing the first draft. I am still sanding down the rough edges and polishing it up. This may take a while (especially since learning never ceases).
    In any case, when my book is eventually published and made readily available, I will most likely post the title and other relevant information somewhere on this forum. -BJ
    Thanks.

    Would you be able to divuldge with whom you most agree? JWs, CDs, etc..?

    God bless

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    To AVmetro

    AVMetro:

    Strangely enough, I have yet to find a group that believes everything I do. Christadelphians come closer than anyone I have seen, but they still believe in too many things that I don't (such as the necessity of a literal baptism). Currently, I am questioning the nature of heaven and "hell" (I seriously doubt that it is a place of eternal torment, and I also don't believe that we have souls that separate from our dead bodies to go one place or the other...that is an obvious Hellenistic thought and not a Hebrew one). I am also questioning the nature of "Satan" (whether or not he/it is a person or our sinful nature personified in the Scriptures).
    The Trinity was the first issue I seriously questioned about my southern baptist background. I tried to defend it, but I I became frustrated since most of the verses I could rely on were either

    (1) Mysteriously worded (ex., "And the Word was with God and the Word was God" and "Before Abraham was, I am."),

    (2) Questionably translated (ex., Romans 9:5 among others),

    (3) A contradiction of other more explicit statements (ex., John 17:3, John 20:17),

    (4) Or an interpretation that is ignorant of Hebraic idioms and/or the original language (ex., What we mean by "God" as English speakers is not necessarily what Hebrews meant by "elohim" and "theos")

    If there are any questions regarding anything, I'll be glad to answer them. -BJ
    Last edited by asi66; December 11th, 2002 at 12:37 PM.

  15. #45
    Just livin' life one day at a time. Poly's Avatar
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    I wondered if we could get some idea as to when the next battle will begin. I didn't know if maybe this being a bad time of year it was going to be put off until the begining of next year.

    For what it's worth, I would like to see a debate on 1013's suggestion of one obtaining salvation outside the reach of the gospel.

    It seems as though there have been some other good suggestions also.
    "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



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