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StanJ

New member
elohiym said:
Why do you think a covetous person is a believer?

…5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;
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Living a lifestyle of sin and sinning are two completely different things.
ALL believers sin, but they don't have a lifestyle of sinning.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
StanJ said:
Living a lifestyle of sin and sinning are two completely different things.
ALL believers sin, but they don't have a lifestyle of sinning.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
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:thumb:
 
meshak

meshak

BANNED
Banned
steko said:
Gros never appeared to be arrogant, to me.

He just happens to have a unique perspective which only a few understand.
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Of course, you have the same kind of faith with him. what else is new?

Everyone who agrees with you is not arrogant, just misunderstood. right?
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
That is JUST ridiculous.

John was ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will JUDGE the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL. Why, exactly, would his letters be addressed to an audience that was predominately Gentiles?

Just ridiculous. Just a crazy fantasy of knowledge on your part.
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For one, John's letters are not addressed to Jews so saying they were is an assumption based on a presupposition. Their content is not about Jewish issues: the Judaizers, the festivals, the Messianic Kingdom, prophecies. Instead, they address Docetism which was not a Jewish heresy but one that arose as an amalgam of Christianity, Greek philosophy and mysticism. Although the writer has a Semitic way of expressing himself the themes are simple, universal and do not require a Jewish background to understand.

Historically the letters of John were written in the last decade of the First Century when John was living in Ephesus. This was according to Irenaeus who was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John himself. The Early Church fathers report that John's ministry was centered in Asia Minor unless you think this was a fantasy of theirs.

The Churches in the cities of Asia Minor at that time were predominantly Gentile, not Jewish. There were a number of reasons for this. For one, the Roman's at he time of Nero began to differentiate between Christians and Jews so that later Jews actually joined in the persecution of Christians. This widened the division between Jews and Gentile Christians. Also, the base of operations for the Jewish mission in Jerusalem had been devastated along with the destruction of the temple and the martyrdom of the main leader of it, James the brother of Jesus. All of these factors contributed to the loss of Jewish membership in the Church.

John, having lived through all this became an important leader among gentile Christians, which comports with the fact that he was used to write letters to the seven Churches of Asia Minor in Revelation. John's trainee Polycarp was the presiding Elder in the Church of Smyrna mentioned in the Revelation. So you see, things were much different in the last part of the century than they had been some thirty years before when James, Peter and Paul were still alive.

These are facts of history that are accessible to anyone. Are we to believe that the Early Church Fathers falsified their accounts when they had no motive to do so or is it more likely that some proponents of MAD have concocted a pseudo-history to support their narrative when they do have a motive to do so? Personally I prefer to think that they were so centered on the text of the Bible that they did not carefully investigate their own claims.

In fact, the Twelve were never prohibited from going to the nations. The "Jews-first" protocol ended but was never steadfastly adhered to. Besides in the Great Commission Jesus commanded to go. What history we know indicates that they went to places far away from Israel to Gentiles. The idea that they always ministered solely to Jews is what is a myth. None of this affects the fact that they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel in the Messianic kingdom
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Shasta said:
The letters of John were written in the last decade of the First Century when John was living in Ephesus. This was according to Irenaeus who was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John himself. The Early Church fathers reported that John's ministry was centered in Asia Minor unless you think John's ministry there was a fantasy of theirs.

The Churches in the cities of Asia Minor at that time were predominantly Gentile, not Jewish. There were a number of reasons for this. For one, the Roman's at he time of Nero began to differentiate between Christians and Jews so that later Jews actually joined in the persecution of Christians. Also, the base of operations for the Jewish mission in Jerusalem had been wiped out along with the destruction of the temple and the martyrdom of the main leader of it, James the brother of Jesus.

All of these factors contributed to the loss of Jewish membership in the Church. John, having lived through all this became an important leader in Asia Minor, which comports with the fact that he was used to write letters to the seven Churches of Asia Minor in Revelation. John's trainee Polycarp was the presiding Elder in the Church of Smyrna mentioned in the Revelation. So you see, things were much different in the last part of the century than they had been some thirty years before when James, Peter and Paul were still alive.

These are facts of history that are accessible to anyone. Are we to believe that the Early Church Fathers falsified their accounts (when they had no motive to do so) or are we to believe that proponents of MAD have concocted a pseudo-history to support their narrative when they have a motive to do so? Personally I would like to think that they were so centered on the text of the Bible that they did not carefully investigate their own claims.

In fact, the Twelve were never prohibited from going to the nations. In the Great Commission Jesus commanded to go. What history we know indicates that they went to places far away from Israel to Gentiles. The idea that they always ministered solely to Jews is what is a myth. None of this affects the fact that they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel in the Messianic kingdom
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You may have knowledge, but, are you a member of the Body of Christ? If so, you shouldn't have a difficult time giving us a short
Testimony of how you became a "True Believer" in Christ?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Testimonies are essential, because, they let us know if you are a "True
Believer" or a "pretender to the faith?" 1 Peter 3:15 states: "But sanctify
the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to
every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with
meekness and fear:"
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I'm always curious why, when asked, posters refuse to give a personal
testimony of how they came to Christ? I'm also curious why they refuse
to tell what church or denomination they're affiliated with? I have no such
fears myself.
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
You may have knowledge, but, are you a member of the Body of Christ? If so, you shouldn't have a difficult time giving us a short
Testimony of how you became a "True Believer" in Christ?
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I do not need to pass your tests. At any rate no matter how convincing a testimony I gave you could always read something incorrect into it from your playbook. Since I do not agree with you there has to be something wrong with my experience of salvation, right?

This is not just a friendly invitation for me to share my testimony. It is a ploy to shift the focus of the discussion from giving a reasoned defense of what we believe to trading ad hominem attacks, a tactic which you seem to prefer.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Shasta said:
I do not need to pass your tests. At any rate no matter how convincing a testimony I gave you could always read something incorrect into it from your playbook. Since I do not agree with you there has to be something wrong with my experience of salvation, right?

This is not just a friendly invitation for me to share my testimony. It is a ploy to shift the focus of the discussion from giving a reasoned defense of what we believe to trading ad hominem attacks, a tactic which you seem to prefer.
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You give me way too much credit.
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I'm always curious why, when asked, posters refuse to give a personal
testimony of how they came to Christ? I'm also curious why they refuse
to tell what church or denomination they're affiliated with? I have no such
fears myself.
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I find it amazing that when asked to participate in the purpose of this thread which is to discuss OSAS you continually refuse to engage.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I have run into very few, "Grace Gospel Believers" while being on TOL.
TOL has a variety of cultists, religious folks, oddballs, atheists/agnostics,
etc. I'm always happy to see a "Grace Gospel" follower.
 
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