The Most Violated Commandments of the Lord?

Love and mercy are the most egregious qualities too many believers shun. The focus on the pinched and narrow concerns of most believers is a slap in the face to the great Hebrew prophets, many of the Psalms and the Kingdom of God teachings of Jesus.

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It is truly sad that an exclusive focus on Jesus and a moral Christian life is so disruptive and alarming for TheologyOnline.

Shame on TOL for banning voices they don't agree with! The mark of any tyranny is the inability to deal with diversity. It is only the dictatorial, authoritarian who look at any challenge to their autocratic rules as dangerous and in need of annihilation.

The victimization, the anger covering up shame and the immaturity of most folks on this website is truly astonishing to me.

Nevertheless, I will continue to stress the authentic parabolic teachings of Jesus as well as connecting myself and the world to the great moral epic of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

dataylor said:

Notice our Lord's commandments from Matthew 23:8-10:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Here the Greek for rabbi means "my master;" while the Greek for teacher means "instructor." Nevertheless, most Christians elevate their teaching ministers to positions of spiritual authority by calling them pastors, priests, chaplins, elders, and teachers.

Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Nevertheless, Catholic Christians call their clergy "father."

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Here the Greek for leaders means guide, master or teacher. Nevertheless, most Christians consider their clergy specially called spiritual leaders whom oversee the church.

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Now look at what Paul wrote in Ephesians 4:11:

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

Here the Greek translated pastors is pronounced poimēn. And it specifically means a “shepherd.”

But look at what Jesus said in John 10:16:

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with ONE shepherd.

Furthermore, we have already seen how in Matthew 23, Jesus said “for One is your Teacher.” So not only does most of Christianity disobey what Jesus taught, but the apostle Paul promoted such disobedience.

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Question: So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?

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The Lord Jesus Christ, while on earth, taught the law, wolfie.

dataylor said:

No. My original question is more personal: "So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?"

Thus as modern Christians, should we:

1) sit in front of human spiritual leaders and and drink in what they tell us?

or

2) individually study the teachings of the Lord, and then assemble as a group of peers to share our studies?

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False dichotomy. Following Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, is following the risen, glorified, seated Lord Jesus Christ, in this dispensation, for Paul's words, are the "Lord from heaven"'s words, in this dispensation.

aikido7 said:

Love and mercy are the most egregious. The focus on the pinched and narrow concerns of most believers is a slap in the face to the great Hebrew prophets, many of the Psalms and the Kingdom of God teachings of Jesus.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is truly sad that an exclusive focus on Jesus and a moral Christian life is so disruptive and alarming for TheologyOnline.

Shame on TOL for banning voices they don't agree with! The mark of any tyranny is the inability to deal with diversity. It is only the dictatorial, authoritarian who look at any challenge to their autocratic rules as dangerous and in need of annihilation.

The victimization, the anger covering up shame and the immaturity of most folks on this website is truly astonishing to me.

Nevertheless, I will continue to stress the authentic parabolic teachings of Jesus as well as connecting myself and the world to the great moral epic of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

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A MOST refreshing post

dataylor said:

Notice our Lord's commandments from Matthew 23:8-10:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Here the Greek for rabbi means "my master;" while the Greek for teacher means "instructor." Nevertheless, most Christians elevate their teaching ministers to positions of spiritual authority by calling them pastors, priests, chaplins, elders, and teachers.

Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

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Jesus also exclaimed "Why do you call me good? Only God is good!" as well as "Who made ME a judge?

Nevertheless, Catholic Christians call their clergy "father."

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Could this be because all church people who are set up as authorities have to be looked up to in some way?

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Here the Greek for leaders means guide, master or teacher. Nevertheless, most Christians consider their clergy specially called spiritual leaders whom oversee the church.

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Just about all social and religious movements tend to "take over" the group by substituting a person to supposedly honor and carry on the path presented by their original leader--even if that leader spurred any claim to leadership. What sort of "leader," after all, would wash the feet of others as Jesus did and as the recent Pope is doing? What does that say about "leadership" to you? Jesus obviously--in my view--did it without thinking. Pope Francis is doing it as a symbol in imitation of Jesus to remind us all of who Jesus was besides Savior of the World and Son of God, etc.

Question: So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?

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Again, it is a choice. Do we continue to propagate a Christianity Jesus himself would have scorned or do we go back to Jesus and figure out how he can still be meaningful in today's world?

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It is truly sad that an exclusive focus on Jesus and a moral Christian life is so disruptive and alarming for TheologyOnline.

Shame on TOL for banning voices they don't agree with! The mark of any tyranny is the inability to deal with diversity. It is only the dictatorial, authoritarian who look at any challenge to their autocratic rules as dangerous and in need of annihilation.

The victimization, the anger covering up shame and the immaturity of most folks on this website is truly astonishing to me.

Nevertheless, I will continue to stress the authentic parabolic teachings of Jesus as well as connecting myself and the world to the great moral epic of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

dataylor said:

I certainly value much of what Paul wrote. However, it's undeniable that Paul wrote things that contradict the teachings of Jesus, especially in the area of church authority.

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Correct. Thus, the 2 timothy 2:15 KJV command.

dataylor said:

In addition, I find it unsettling that Paul ordains himself an apostle, and that he refers to "my gospel."

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Take that up with the Lord Jesus Christ, who chose Paul, to be His steward, minister..............................in this dispensation.

dataylor said:

But since Paul cannot save me and grant me eternal life, I find none of this a serious issue to my personal Christianity. My focus is on Christ, not Paul.

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Deceit, sophistry, false dichotomy.


You, to the LORD God, way back yonder, as one of the children of Israel:"Well, LORD God, since Moses cannot save me and grant me eternal life, I find none of this a serious issue to my personal Judaism. My focus is on the Messiah, not Moses."

Just as Moses was the LORD God's appointed spokesman, to the nation of Israel, Paul is the LORD God's' appointed spokesman, to respective members of the body of Christ.


You rebel, as just as the nation Israel, rebelled against the LORD God's appointed leader, Moses, so it is today, rebelling against His chosen vessel Paul.

john w said:

You, to the LORD God, way back yonder, as one of the children of Israel:"Well, LORD God, since Moses cannot save me and grant me eternal life, I find none of this a serious issue to my personal Judaism. My focus is on the Messiah, not Moses."

Just as Moses was the LORD God's appointed spokesman, to the nation of Israel, Paul is the LORD God's' appointed spokesman, to respective members of the body of Christ.


You rebel, as just as the nation Israel, rebelled against the LORD God's appointed leader, Moses, so it is today, rebelling against His chosen vessel Paul.

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Absolutely agree!

dataylor,

Answer this, if you will:

Why did God not speak to the people directly, rather than sending His Son? Why didn't He just speak directly to the people, rather than send Moses and the prophets to tell the people what they needed to know? Why didn't He just speak directly to the people, instead of sending John, Stephen, Agabus, Paul, and other apostles to call on people to believe, follow, and obey them?

dataylor said:

Notice our Lord's commandments from Matthew 23:8-10:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Here the Greek for rabbi means "my master;" while the Greek for teacher means "instructor." Nevertheless, most Christians elevate their teaching ministers to positions of spiritual authority by calling them pastors, priests, chaplins, elders, and teachers.

Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Nevertheless, Catholic Christians call their clergy "father."

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Here the Greek for leaders means guide, master or teacher. Nevertheless, most Christians consider their clergy specially called spiritual leaders whom oversee the church.

* * * *​

Now look at what Paul wrote in Ephesians 4:11:

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

Here the Greek translated pastors is pronounced poimēn. And it specifically means a “shepherd.”

But look at what Jesus said in John 10:16:

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with ONE shepherd.

Furthermore, we have already seen how in Matthew 23, Jesus said “for One is your Teacher.” So not only does most of Christianity disobey what Jesus taught, but the apostle Paul promoted such disobedience.

* * * *​

Question: So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?

Click to expand...

Paul was the only apostle that received the Gospel directly from Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

Now why do you think he did that?

What are you another Paul hater?

dataylor said:

The Sabbath commandment was given to the nation of Israel as part of the Old Covenant.

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The seventh day of rest is described in Genesis 2:2-3 which was long before the people of Jacob, so of course he shared the knowledge of the seventh day Sabbath with his chosen people.

Robert Pate said:

Paul was the only apostle that received the Gospel directly from Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

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Robert Pate said:

Paul was the only apostle that received the Gospel directly from Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

Now why do you think he did that?

What are you another Paul hater?

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The words of the Lord show your folly:

"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. "Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. "But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me (John 17:6-23).

And within all this fulfilled prophecy where both the Father and Christ are actively involved in sharing God's message to mankind, there is not a single mention of someone named Paul, the self-appointed "apostle" whom today has more authority than even the 12 men who received the words of God the Father, passed down by Jesus Christ.

How shameful.

Robert Pate said:

Paul was the only apostle that received the Gospel directly from Christ, Galatians 1:11, 12.

Now why do you think he did that?

What are you another Paul hater?

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How is Paul the only person that directly received the Gospel from Christ when Christ had clearly preached the Gospel to all the apostles before he had risen?

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation

Preachers and churches must give Paul priority, for he is the only NT writer that claims God has established human beings in authority over the church. Without the writings of Paul, the existing ministry of human beings would quickly unravel.

dataylor said:

No. My original question is more personal: "So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?"

Thus as modern Christians, should we:

1) sit in front of human spiritual leaders and and drink in what they tell us?

or

2) individually study the teachings of the Lord, and then assemble as a group of peers to share our studies?

Click to expand...

My personal opinion is you should study scripture on your own, i attend church church for the fellowship more than anything. I dont follow half the teaching our so called church leaders are teachings.

Man.0 said:

Consider Matthew 28:16-20:

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.'

The disciples were being commissioned to teach, by Jesus Christ Himself. So if they were being commissioned to teach, what does that make them? What is a person who teaches, if not a teacher?

Besides this, if they are being taught by the Teacher (1 John 2:27;John 14:26;John 16:13) why should they not become teachers themselves by passing that teaching of truth, which they receive from God, onto others? How will the body of Christ be edified if there are no teachers? The teachers in Christ's body, are not speaking from their own opinion and imaginations, and making up their own doctrines; but rather, they are are delivering what is inspired, or revealed to them, by God. As are the prophets, pastors, apostles and evangelists.

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Sorry that I did not make myself more clear.

Jesus said we are not to label anyone as having the position of a "Christian teacher" or "Christian leader." However, ALL disciples are called to teach.

Notice:

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Hebrews 5:12-14).

So the real issue is whether or not some Christian disciples have authority over other Christians as teachers and leaders.

And in Luke 22:25-26, Jesus said "No."