The Late Great Urantia Revelation

Caino · Jul 2, 2015

Caino said:
Welcome everyone to the thread,

This space is dedicated to sharing and discussion of the Urantia Papers, or what formally came to be known in the public domain as the Urantia Book (UB), a large comprehensive tome of 196 Papers given to our planet in the early part of the 20th century by a group of celestial personalities, serving as the 5th epochal revelation to our planet 'Urantia' (Earth). The revelators used the highest concepts of knowledge among the archives of humanity at that time within the schools of science, religion, history and philosophy, expanding our conceptual frame-work of the universe and the purpose of creation in time and eternity, particularly explaining the ascension-program and eternal progression of souls in their journey towards divine perfection.

The volume is divided in 4 parts (online study edition indexed here) -

1. The Central and Superuniverses

2. The Local Universe

3. History of Urantia (planet Earth)

4. The Life and Teachings of Jesus

~*~*~

These introductions below explain much more for those interested in discussing –

The UB – an introduction

Introduction to the Urantia Book for Conservative Christians

Urantia Book differences from traditional-orthodox Christian beliefs

Truthbook Intro.

3-Part Video Introduction to the Urantia Book

Urantia Foundation Intro.

UB Websites Directory

~*~*~

Open, explorative and insightful discussion is encouraged here concerning the cosmology, philosophy, theology revealed in the papers,...their concepts, ideals, values, meanings within the contextual frames provided, whether one sees this work as 'inspired', truly 'revelatory' (more or less) or as religious science fiction or a tapestry of amalgamated influences from various sources,...no matter,....respectful and civil dialogue is encouraged, for those interested in the many subjects covered in this work.

Thank You.

~*~*~

The Love of God:

"The Father’s love follows us now and throughout the endless circle of the eternal ages. As you ponder the loving nature of God, there is only one reasonable and natural personality reaction thereto: You will increasingly love your Maker; you will yield to God an affection analogous to that given by a child to an earthly parent; for, as a father, a real father, a true father, loves his children, so the Universal Father loves and forever seeks the welfare of his created sons and daughters.

But the love of God is an intelligent and farseeing parental affection. The divine love functions in unified association with divine wisdom and all other infinite characteristics of the perfect nature of the Universal Father. God is love, but love is not God. The greatest manifestation of the divine love for mortal beings is observed in the bestowal of the Thought Adjusters, but your greatest revelation of the Father’s love is seen in the bestowal life of his Son Michael as he lived on earth the ideal spiritual life. It is the indwelling Adjuster who individualizes the love of God to each human soul.

At times I am almost pained to be compelled to portray the divine affection of the heavenly Father for his universe children by the employment of the human word symbol love. This term, even though it does connote man’s highest concept of the mortal relations of respect and devotion, is so frequently designative of so much of human relationship that is wholly ignoble and utterly unfit to be known by any word which is also used to indicate the matchless affection of the living God for his universe creatures! How unfortunate that I cannot make use of some supernal and exclusive term which would convey to the mind of man the true nature and exquisitely beautiful significance of the divine affection of the Paradise Father.

When man loses sight of the love of a personal God, the kingdom of God becomes merely the kingdom of good. Notwithstanding the infinite unity of the divine nature, love is the dominant characteristic of all God’s personal dealings with his creatures." Urantia revelation 1955

Aimiel · Jul 2, 2015

Caino said:
...your greatest revelation of the Father’s love is seen in the bestowal life of his Son Michael as he lived on earth the ideal spiritual life.

Once again, the demonic doctrine of hell shines forth. It wasn't His Life which was important... it was His Death. When He took my place upon the cross, my sins were paid for. His Blood cleanses me of all un-righteousness. Without His Blood, no one could be saved. Without Him defeating death, hell, the grave and all the power of the enemy, we would be powerless against Satan. With Jesus' Blood, we have the victory. Satan is defeated. God is exalted. Jesus is Lord and God! His Name isn't Michael, it is Jesus. If you believe the demonic doctrine of Urantia, you have NO CLUE of any of the Truths of Scripture.

freelight · Jul 2, 2015

a more subtle truth..............

a more subtle truth..............

Aimiel said:
Once again, the demonic doctrine of hell shines forth. It wasn't His Life which was important... it was His Death. When He took my place upon the cross, my sins were paid for. His Blood cleanses me of all un-righteousness. Without His Blood, no one could be saved. Without Him defeating death, hell, the grave and all the power of the enemy, we would be powerless against Satan. With Jesus' Blood, we have the victory. Satan is defeated. God is exalted. Jesus is Lord and God! His Name isn't Michael, it is Jesus. If you believe the demonic doctrine of Urantia, you have NO CLUE of any of the Truths of Scripture.

The bestowal life of Jesus and how he lived is central to his 'revealing' God to man, along with his gospel of the kingdom of heaven, founded upon the premise of 'The Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man'. Jesus revealing God the Father in this way, includes no blood-sacrifice, but shows a path of surrender, repentance, humility and service....a way of re-turning to God, the way of love and truth.

~*~*~

See:

Reconsidering the concept of blood-atonement

~*~*~

Don't forget too, that the concept of blood-atonement (although in modified forms in Jewish temple rituals) was not wholly efficacious or effective apart from the personal repentance and inner transformation of the individual, since 'blood' in and of itself cannot cleanse or change the conscience, NEITHER is the idea of a man dying for another's sins part of orthodox Jewish teaching or scripture, since each are responsible for their own sins, and their own salvation (see Ezekiel for starters).

Also, the law of personal responsibility holds (and its karmic appropriations) as far as one's actions are concerned, even if the divine grace from a saint or prophet is granted thru 'God' to an individual or nation, there is still the law of responsibility, and the 'law of compensation', whereby each soul must atone for its own sins (via reparation/repentance/restitution). These are universal principles.

pj

freelight · Jul 2, 2015

God is Love......

God is Love......

Caino said:
The Love of God:

"The Father’s love follows us now and throughout the endless circle of the eternal ages. As you ponder the loving nature of God, there is only one reasonable and natural personality reaction thereto: You will increasingly love your Maker; you will yield to God an affection analogous to that given by a child to an earthly parent; for, as a father, a real father, a true father, loves his children, so the Universal Father loves and forever seeks the welfare of his created sons and daughters.

But the love of God is an intelligent and farseeing parental affection. The divine love functions in unified association with divine wisdom and all other infinite characteristics of the perfect nature of the Universal Father. God is love, but love is not God. The greatest manifestation of the divine love for mortal beings is observed in the bestowal of the Thought Adjusters, but your greatest revelation of the Father’s love is seen in the bestowal life of his Son Michael as he lived on earth the ideal spiritual life. It is the indwelling Adjuster who individualizes the love of God to each human soul.

At times I am almost pained to be compelled to portray the divine affection of the heavenly Father for his universe children by the employment of the human word symbol love. This term, even though it does connote man’s highest concept of the mortal relations of respect and devotion, is so frequently designative of so much of human relationship that is wholly ignoble and utterly unfit to be known by any word which is also used to indicate the matchless affection of the living God for his universe creatures! How unfortunate that I cannot make use of some supernal and exclusive term which would convey to the mind of man the true nature and exquisitely beautiful significance of the divine affection of the Paradise Father.

When man loses sight of the love of a personal God, the kingdom of God becomes merely the kingdom of good. Notwithstanding the infinite unity of the divine nature, love is the dominant characteristic of all God’s personal dealings with his creatures." Urantia revelation 1955

Indeed,.......we see that 'love' is something shared among 'persons', so it is intimately communicated among personalities. The love of God being infinite also includes the totality of creation (All That Is)...so even 'God' conceived as 'Infinite Good', is still that divine goodness revealed in the whole of creation,...within all realms of matter, mind, energy, spirit.

42:1.1 The foundation of the universe is material, but the essence of life is spirit.

pj

Aimiel · Jul 2, 2015

Goodness isn't revealed in evil. Murder isn't good. War isn't good. Disease, poverty and perversity aren't good. What God created was good, before sin brought the curse. Thank God that Jesus' Blood cleanses us of sin, if we believe upon Him.

Aimiel · Jul 2, 2015

freelight said:
The bestowal life of Jesus and how he lived is central to his 'revealing' God to man, along with his gospel of the kingdom of heaven, founded upon the premise of 'The Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man'.

Except for the fact that He never said that or taught such.

Jesus revealing God the Father in this way, includes no blood-sacrifice, but shows a path of surrender, repentance, humility and service....a way of re-turning to God, the way of love and truth.

There's no 'truth' revealed by trampling His Blood under your feet.

Don't forget too, that the concept of blood-atonement (although in modified forms in Jewish temple rituals) was not wholly efficacious or effective apart from the personal repentance and inner transformation of the individual, since 'blood' in and of itself cannot cleanse or change the conscience, NEITHER is the idea of a man dying for another's sins part of orthodox Jewish teaching or scripture, since each are responsible for their own sins, and their own salvation (see Ezekiel for starters).

Jesus taught that His Blood would ransom us back from sin. I'll stick with His teaching, rather than your mis-interpretation of The Holy Scriptures.

Also, the law of personal responsibility holds (and its karmic appropriations) as far as one's actions are concerned, even if the divine grace from a saint or prophet is granted thru 'God' to an individual or nation, there is still the law of responsibility, and the 'law of compensation', whereby each soul must atone for its own sins (via reparation/repentance/restitution). These are universal principles.

This is true, in that each person is guilty of sin; but Jesus' Blood still is the ONLY way to be saved from one's sins. Denouncing this fact won't ever change it. His substitutionary death in your place upon the cross is the only way you can be saved from your sins. Without His Blood being applied to your life: you're lost.

journey · Jul 2, 2015

I could care less what the urantia UFO cult book has to say on any matter, especially what Jesus Christ accomplished at the Cross. The ub is fiction and contradicts the Holy Bible. There is no forgiveness of sins without blood.

Colossians 1:12-14 KJV Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Aimiel · Jul 2, 2015

journey said:
I could care less what the urantia UFO cult book has to say on any matter, especially what Jesus Christ accomplished at the Cross. The ub is fiction and contradicts the Holy Bible. There is no forgiveness of sins without blood.

Colossians 1:12-14 KJV Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

:thumb:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to journey again. =(

freelight · Jul 4, 2015

The pure in heart see 'God'....those who do His will...abide in the kingdom

The pure in heart see 'God'....those who do His will...abide in the kingdom

Aimiel said:
Goodness isn't revealed in evil. Murder isn't good. War isn't good. Disease, poverty and perversity aren't good. What God created was good, before sin brought the curse. Thank God that Jesus' Blood cleanses us of sin, if we believe upon Him.

This is but a presuppositional theological formulation and conclusion, and does nothing to weaken, disprove or diminish my previous philosophical and rational observations on the barbarity, inefficacy and impotency of a 'blood-sacrifice' to cleanse anyone from so called 'sin'.

Crude, primitive and cruel blood-sacrifices are more the 'food' for dark, vampiric and demonic 'gods',.....as religious cults who engaged such naturally passed these down to their religious priesthoods,...of which Jewish traditions borrowed from the pagan-concepts of Babylon and other cultures who conditioned her religious mythology.

The atrocity of blood-letting and murder (although in the name of sacrifice) appeases no holy god, but one's own imagined religious mythos, and at that plays only upon the personal belief-system of the individuals engaged in such, but since the 'means' are 'heinous' methods, this puts questioning the 'ends' and its effectiveness in order, while the more sound and logical way of surrender and repentance remain the essential way in re-turning to God.

~*~*~

Reconsidering the concept of blood-atonement

~*~*~

We've already shared the UB's coverage of blood-atonement, while many other religious texts and communications undermine the shedding of blood (killing of animals or humans) as a means of atonement.

This from the Aquarian Gospel, 13th chapter-

11 John was delighted with his visit to Jerusalem. Matheno told him all about the service of the Jews; the meaning of their rites. 12 John could not understand how sin could be forgiven by killing animals and birds and burning them before the Lord. 13 Matheno said, The God of heaven and earth does not require sacrifice. This custom with its cruel rites was borrowed from the idol worshippers of other lands. 14 No sin was ever blotted out by sacrifice of animal, of bird, or man. 15 Sin is the rushing forth of man into fens of wickedness. If one would get away from sin he must retrace his steps, and find his way out of the fens of wickedness. 16 Return and purify your hearts by love and righteousness and you shall be forgiven. 17 This is the burden of the message that the harbinger shall bring to men. 18 What is forgiveness? John inquired. 19 Matheno said, It is the paying up of debts. A man who wrongs another man can never be forgiven until he rights the wrong. 20 The Vedas says that none can right the wrong but him who does the wrong. 21 John said, If this be true where is the power to forgive except the power that rests in man himself? Can man forgive himself? 22 Matheno said, The door is wide ajar; you see the way of man's return to right, and the forgiveness of his sins.

Don't forget,...you have to make atonement or reparation for your own sins,...no one can do that for you. This is universal law, and nothing can abrogate it....although grace can be extended by the sacrificing love, intercession, prayer, mediation of a servant or agent of God,...I've never denied that and certainly respect the different servants of God in every religious tradition or school. BUT,....the principle of self-responsibility (the law of karma, retribution and compensation) must be exacted,...each must reap what they sow, measure for measure, and certainly helped by 'God' in the process towards progress, spiritual purification, perfection, evolution, ascension, etc.

pj

Aimiel · Jul 4, 2015

freelight said:
This is but a presuppositional theological formulation and conclusion, and does nothing to weaken, disprove or diminish my previous philosophical and rational observations on the barbarity, inefficacy and impotency of a 'blood-sacrifice' to cleanse anyone from so called 'sin'.

The concept of sin isn't imaginary. You know, instinctively, the difference between good and evil. Evil is sin. You know that you're a sinner, but choose to ignore the fact, thinking that your busy investigations of philosophies formed over the ages will save you. They won't. Only The Blood of Jesus can cleanse your sin.

Crude, primitive and cruel blood-sacrifices are more the 'food' for dark, vampiric and demonic 'gods',...

That's poppycock. The substitutionary death of Christ in your place upon the cross was God's design and not crude or primitive at all. It was carefully planned from the foundation of the world and kept secret from the fallen angels who would never have crucified Him, had they known what God was doing by having Him killed.

...as religious cults who engaged such naturally passed these down to their religious priesthoods,...of which Jewish traditions borrowed from the pagan-concepts of Babylon and other cultures who conditioned her religious mythology.

God instituted sacrifice for sin when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden. Animals were sacrificed to supply skins to cover their nakedness. That sacrifice symbolized Jesus'.

We've already shared the UB's coverage of blood-atonement, while many other religious texts and communications undermine the shedding of blood (killing of animals or humans) as a means of atonement.

Just as Christians have already shared the Truth of Christ's sacrifice of His Life's-Blood being the greatest revelation of God's Agape Love that there ever was. It shows us how important men are to God: He surrendered His Son to be sacrificed to save us from an eternal torment in flames and to give us eternal life in His Presence.

Don't forget,...you have to make atonement or reparation for your own sins,...no one can do that for you.

Yes, but since Jesus NEVER sinned, and yet submitted to the payment required by sin (death) this mis-carriage of justice has opened the door for Him to be able to substitute His Life for a believer's death. We get the life that He should have been allowed to keep because He took the death-sentence that we deserved. It's called: "The Great Exchange." God designed it and even though all of hell hates the facts of salvation, especially The Blood, the facts still stand. Even though you don't understand it, it still is true.

This is universal law, and nothing can abrogate it...

God can. He did. Christ interceded.

...although grace can be extended by the sacrificing love, intercession, prayer, mediation of a servant or agent of God,...I've never denied that...

I do. Works cannot save anyone.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

... and certainly respect the different servants of God in every religious tradition or school.

No, you don't. Your hatred of Christians is obvious in nearly every single one of your posts. The demons in you HATE The Holy Spirit inside of us. You can't help yourself.

BUT,....the principle of self-responsibility (the law of karma, retribution and compensation) must be exacted,...each must reap what they sow, measure for measure, and certainly helped by 'God' in the process towards progress, spiritual purification, perfection, evolution, ascension, etc.

Jesus said that whatsoever a man shall sow, that shall he reap. It's true. Those who sow to their flesh shall reap what they sow.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Your philosophies are heresies. You have variance with Christianity. You strive with Christians. You envy Christians. You are working the things of the flesh. Those who walk after The Spirit of God are His Children. You aren't one of them. If you were, it would be evident by your love for Christians. You have none. You shall not inherit The Kingdom of God, except you repent.

Puppet · Jul 4, 2015

freelight said:
This is but a presuppositional theological formulation and conclusion, and does nothing to weaken, disprove or diminish my previous philosophical and rational observations on the barbarity, inefficacy and impotency of a 'blood-sacrifice' to cleanse anyone from so called 'sin'.

Crude, primitive and cruel blood-sacrifices are more the 'food' for dark, vampiric and demonic 'gods',.....as religious cults who engaged such naturally passed these down to their religious priesthoods,...of which Jewish traditions borrowed from the pagan-concepts of Babylon and other cultures who conditioned her religious mythology.

The atrocity of blood-letting and murder (although in the name of sacrifice) appeases no holy god, but one's own imagined religious mythos, and at that plays only upon the personal belief-system of the individuals engaged in such, but since the 'means' are 'heinous' methods, this puts questioning the 'ends' and its effectiveness in order, while the more sound and logical way of surrender and repentance remain the essential way in re-turning to God.

~*~*~

Reconsidering the concept of blood-atonement

~*~*~

We've already shared the UB's coverage of blood-atonement, while many other religious texts and communications undermine the shedding of blood (killing of animals or humans) as a means of atonement.

This from the Aquarian Gospel, 13th chapter-

Don't forget,...you have to make atonement or reparation for your own sins,...no one can do that for you. This is universal law, and nothing can abrogate it....although grace can be extended by the sacrificing love, intercession, prayer, mediation of a servant or agent of God,...I've never denied that and certainly respect the different servants of God in every religious tradition or school. BUT,....the principle of self-responsibility (the law of karma, retribution and compensation) must be exacted,...each must reap what they sow, measure for measure, and certainly helped by 'God' in the process towards progress, spiritual purification, perfection, evolution, ascension, etc.

pj

Was Aquarian gospel written by a lady named Ferguson? I think it has a sybol in front of the book that contains 666.

What you said sounds like purgatory. Perhaps the Catholics found a way to describe what you described.

freelight · Jul 4, 2015

Consider.............

Consider.............

Puppet said:
Was Aquarian gospel written by a lady named Ferguson? I think it has a sybol in front of the book that contains 666.

No, follow the link that was supplied, that's its purpose. A linked text is highlighted in blue and underlined, click on it...it serves as a live link. As in here. It was transcribed by Levi M Dowling.
This text gathered from the Akashic records has nothing to do with 666, but then again, its all a matter of interpretation. I gather you're thinking more of a book called the 'Aquarian Conspiracy' by a Marilyn Ferguson....see here. That symbol on the cover to my knowledge is NOT referring to '666' (a number simply referring to 'man') but is a 'triquetra'. This symbol can also depict the holy Trinity, so I guess any symbol can be as 'christian' or 'satanic' as you make it out to be. While there is an intelligent way in processing information, there is also a gray zone of just pure ignorance or religious superstition,...fueled often by 'fear'. 'Religion' can bind someone into spiritual bondage (dogmatic prisons), just as much as a practice of 'true religion' can foster real spiritual freedom.

What you said sounds like purgatory. Perhaps the Catholics found a way to describe what you described.

Not really,...what I describe is the universal law of karma (we can call this the 'law of retribution' or 'law of compensation', etc.) - it follows that every thought, word and action has 'consequences' as we see in our own experience, and according to the laws of nature, logic and reason. All actions have corresponding re-actions,...the basic law of 'cause/effect'. What one sows, that also he reaps. One must atone for his own sins, just as much as he is punished (or simply suffering the consequences) of his own sins. This then follows the 'law of responsibility'. A basic study in Theosophical principles or basic occult laws is primary here, and I might add again, is fundamental to understanding the subject at hand.

The Catholic concept of 'purgatory' is merely a provisional supplement that is allowed for, since without it, the theological-system suffers under a cruel and merciless government of a perhaps sadistic 'god', so...naturally a provision of some place or 'space' of 'purgatorial cleansing' and the 'suffering out the full extent of one's penalty for sin' is GRANTED. Frankly, this provision is much more merciful and just then some typical rank and file 'beliefs' held by some evangelicals...that you only go to 2 places when you die,....'heaven' or 'hell',...and in the latter, there is no escape or salvation....ever. So,...you've got several concepts and principles to CONSIDER here, if you want to have a 'theology' nearing any level of 'integrity',...let alone a true concept of what is truly merciful and just.

I could go on.....

pj

Caino · Jul 6, 2015

"95:6.6 The Jewish traditions of heaven and hell and the doctrine of devils as recorded in the Hebrew scriptures, while founded on the lingering traditions of Lucifer and Caligastia, were principally derived from the Zoroastrians during the times when the Jews were under the political and cultural dominance of the Persians. Zoroaster, like the Egyptians, taught the "day of judgment," but he connected this event with the end of the world.

95:6.7 Even the religion which succeeded Zoroastrianism in Persia was markedly influenced by it. When the Iranian priests sought to overthrow the teachings of Zoroaster, they resurrected the ancient worship of Mithra. And Mithraism spread throughout the Levant and Mediterranean regions, being for some time a contemporary of both Judaism and Christianity. The teachings of Zoroaster thus came successively to impress three great religions: Judaism and Christianity and, through them, Mohammedanism."

Aimiel · Jul 7, 2015

Smoke and mirrors won't take away the Truth that Jesus revealed about hell and judgement.

freelight · Jul 7, 2015

Aimiel said:
Smoke and mirrors won't take away the Truth that Jesus revealed about hell and judgement.

You just don't know what passages or words in the gospels were 'inserted' into Jesus mouth by scribes, by heresay, assumption or religious tradition. Also the word 'hell' can be variously translated in the Bible, having different nuances and meanings. 'Judgment' is a variable term as well,....as within any true government...there is a system of individual and collective means of administering justice and mercy, besides the law of cause/effect,...action & consequence.

pj

Aimiel · Jul 7, 2015

freelight said:
You just don't know what passages or words in the gospels were 'inserted' into Jesus mouth by scribes, by heresay, assumption or religious tradition.

Actually, I do... NONE. Every word in Scripture is God-breathed.

Also the word 'hell' can be variously translated in the Bible, having different nuances and meanings.

Makes no difference to the Lake of Fire.

'Judgment' is a variable term as well,...

To people like you who want to excuse their sins, every single word has a variable meaning.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Caino · Jul 9, 2015

freelight said:
You just don't know what passages or words in the gospels were 'inserted' into Jesus mouth by scribes, by heresay, assumption or religious tradition. Also the word 'hell' can be variously translated in the Bible, having different nuances and meanings. 'Judgment' is a variable term as well,....as within any true government...there is a system of individual and collective means of administering justice and mercy, besides the law of cause/effect,...action & consequence.

It was natural that the Jewish converts to the Jesus movment wanted Jesus to be their Messiah.

pj

freelight · Jul 9, 2015

Hell, the grave, the dump, the prison for fallen angels, etc.

Hell, the grave, the dump, the prison for fallen angels, etc.

Aimiel said:
Actually, I do... NONE. Every word in Scripture is God-breathed.

That is your opinion placed upon a limited 66 'booked' canon. Religious writings indeed can be inspired more or less by the Spirit of God...and these 'writings' are not necessarily limited to any one 'canon' made by church councils or just one particular religious community. 'God' is the universal reality in all, thru all, and transcending all.

Makes no difference to the Lake of Fire.

But the lake of fire metaphor is only used in the book of Revelation (while some concepts of 'everlasting fire or destruction are elsewhere), a book mind you that many rejected and were hesistant in even adding into the canon, until it was inserted finally at the end. We've already covered problems with ECT (eternal conscious torment) in a lake of fire,...and we note that the words 'gehenna', 'hades', 'sheol', 'tartarus' were translated into the English word 'hell',...but these have different meanings or designations,....AND....there is no reason to assume that the lake of fire is to be identified as 'hell'.

pj

Caino · Jul 10, 2015

freelight said:
That is your opinion placed upon a limited 66 'booked' canon. Religious writings indeed can be inspired more or less by the Spirit of God...and these 'writings' are not necessarily limited to any one 'canon' made by church councils or just one particular religious community. 'God' is the universal reality in all, thru all, and transcending all.

But the lake of fire metaphor is only used in the book of Revelation (while some concepts of 'everlasting fire or destruction are elsewhere), a book mind you that many rejected and were hesistant in even adding into the canon, until it was inserted finally at the end. We've already covered problems with ECT (eternal conscious torment) in a lake of fire,...and we note that the words 'gehenna', 'hades', 'sheol', 'tartarus' were translated into the English word 'hell',...but these have different meanings or designations,....AND....there is no reason to assume that the lake of fire is to be identified as 'hell'.

pj

Moses was far advanced in intelligence and enlightenment relative to his nomadic followers, so he needed the fiery eruptions of Sinai to aw and instill fear into the superstitious people. Yahweh was the name of the nature God of Sinai, it stuck with the Israelites.

Threats of hell and the lake of fire, curses, bugs and plagues are all the same sort of fear inspiring teachings that appeal to more ignorant types of people who frankly need a God to be afraid of.

freelight · Jul 13, 2015

Around the mulberry bush.....

Around the mulberry bush.....

~*~*~

Hi all,

Some more dialogue continuing with GM from some comments of his from the chatbox. See our dialogue there if interested. Some would question the value or time even given to this poster, since we've addressed his criticisms here and in various mock threads related to the UB. However for readers, we offer such as enlightenment or mere entertainment, whatever is your 'suit'. However some points are worth addressing steering the conversation towards more creative ends instead of the usual diatribe from nay-sayers.

[12:40 AM] Grosnick Marowbe: Well Freelight, my concept relies on the fact that God created all that is. I'm a Christian and a member of the Body of Christ, and you are a cultist/occultist and not a Christian!

As discussing previously on defining what 'reality' is (from the chat session),...I merely brought up that ones 'concept' of 'reality' is open to debate, as it depends on how we are defining 'reality' and by what criteria we are qualifying that definition. If we identify 'God' as 'Reality', which I do often from a metaphysical POV, then that reality is beyond all conception (it just IS....as 'absolute reality'), it is prior to any thought, idea, opinion or explanation,...since it is original, eternal, infinite, without beginning or end, so it cannot be wholly defined by any created language. Attempts at defining are made by 'langauge' and a study of the UB proves this with its own unique terms, meanings, values and nuances...which can only be 'related' to one who studies the text. So if one studies the UB, then 'reality' is being related within that given language-context, according to its term,...as far as it is relatable.

Your 'charge' that I'm not a 'christian' holds little water (as if I needed to defend myself on clinging to a term, as 'God' knows my heart), because it is a judgment based on your own limited definition or qualification of what a 'christian' is, - your use of the terms 'cultist/occult' is also skewed by presuppositions and other distortions. Note,...one who trusts, honors and follows the teachings/ethics/principles taught and LIVED by Jesus, could be called a 'christian',...if you must use the term. Otherwise, some UB readers use the term 'Jesusonian' to describe the nature, style and character of the WAY that Jesus taught and lived, instead of misleading caricatures that have become attached to the label 'christian'. I have nothing against the term 'christian', just how its appropriated.

So,...your claim that I'm not a 'christian' is meaningless on one level, and only of note within a certain reference-field or comparative. If one values and strives to live the life, ideal and principles that Jesus lived,...I would deem that one to be a 'christian',...but still....this term has with it presuppositions. A follower of Jesus strives to DO God's will, live according to its principles, the ethic of the kingdom. These are essential.

See the very last Paper of the UB here for more on JESUS. Its an epic summary to the text.

pj

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