The Importance of Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Unbelief is not really a sin. Unbelief is a denial and a rejection of the truth and is the result of sin.
I would say that unbelief is the results of sin, but is not really a sin.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
It is this passage which contain the words spoken by Peter about the remission of sins:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
According to Peter only the sins of those who believe are taken away or expiated.
But you say that all of the sins of everyone in the whole world have been taken away or expiated.
Why should we believe you instead of Peter?
j4jesus09
New member
Right, it was written for our understanding so we know that the holy spirit is NOT associated with that kind of mess. Still brother, the fact that if a person can receive Jesus Christ and the message of the gospel they must been chosen. Why? The carnal man can't receive the the things of God for they are spiritually discerned. God must do something to man INSIDE that allows him to receive the gospel. I personally believe the Holy Spirit enters man and gives rebirth and then man believes on the gospel then confession is made unto faith. Alot of people think a person must believe the gospel first but without the holy spirit helping man, basically God helping man, man wouldn't believe. The irony!
j4jesus09
New member
Totally agree! It's oneness. The holy spirit teaches us the gospel.
I don't see Jesus as proclaiming he died for our sins. He forgave sins many, many times long before he died. He died because of the Romans and the priest elders colluded to kill him for high treason.
The atonement theology wasn't worked completely out until around the year 900 by a famous Christian theologian, Anselm of Canterbury.
My evidence shows that Jesus did not believe in a blood sacrifice but, as the Lord's Prayer shows, only a spirit of repentance will get us squared away with God for a good life.
The atonement theology wasn't worked completely out until around the year 900 by a famous Christian theologian, Anselm of Canterbury.
My evidence shows that Jesus did not believe in a blood sacrifice but, as the Lord's Prayer shows, only a spirit of repentance will get us squared away with God for a good life.
j4jesus09
New member
Huh??
j4jesus09
New member
1st John2:2
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
The scriptures teach that Jesus has abolished sin, death and the devil and that he is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So there is no more sin or death in the world?
And you must also think that Peter was in error when he said the following:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
According to Peter only the sins of those who believe are taken away or expiated.
But you say that all of the sins of everyone in the whole world have been taken away or expiated.
Where did you ever get the idea that you know more about these things than Peter?
Jerry, what you don't understand is that God sees everything in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished and Jesus is Lord, Colossians 2:15.
Jesus Christ is Gods new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. We have been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
All who have faith in Christ and his Gospel are saved. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit and are "In Christ". God sees them "In Christ" as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why will you not directly address Peter's words here?:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
If all men's sins are already remitted or expiated then how is it possible for those who believe to have their sins remitted since they have already been expiated?
In other words, how can a believer's sins be taken away if their are no sins to be taken away?
Please give me your interpretation of the meaning of Peter's words at Acts 10:43.
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Of COURSE John would say that. To declare Jesus as the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins was clearly John's agenda.
In fact, he has Jesus dying on the day BEFORE Passover--not like the other three gospels assert.
John's Jesus dies on the Day of Preparation when the paschal lambs were slaughtered for the Passover meal the next day.
And don't take my word for this. Check it out for yourself.
Jesus forgave sins plenty of time long before the Roman Empire had him executed.
The quote form Hebrews is definitely an important biblical tradition, but it is not the only one. A much older tradition decrees that humans need to come before a God of mercy with repentance, not sacrifice. Both Jesus and John the Baptist called people to repentance.
It was the priests in the temple who still carried on the spilling of blood for atonement. Jesus is recorded as attacking the temple rites in all four gospel accounts, so we can be pretty confident they are all describing something that actually took place in Jesus' history.
Jesus once quoted the prophet Hosea and told of a God that "demanded mercy, not sacrifice."
The idea of a jealous and angry God of justice was a newer tradition and had its origin in the priestly line from Aaron, Moses's brother.
Ben Masada
New member
Jesus could not have forgiven the sins of any one because he himself declared that if one comes to the Temple to plead for salvation and, all of a sudden is reminded that he has offended someone else, he must leave every thing behind, and go set things right with whomever he has an issue with and set things right with him and only then return to proceed with the prayers. (Mat. 5:23,24) It means that Jesus could not forgive the sins committed against another. Then it was against the Prophets that someone else other than the sinner himself could make atonement for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)
If Jesus is recorded as attacking the Priests in their Temple rites, he himself needed to be forgiven by the priests.
Jesus not only attacked the priest, he attacked the whole temple.
"And when he had a scourage of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple and the sheep and the oxen and poured out the changers money and overthrew the tables" John 2:15.
You are in serious trouble my Jewish friend. Jesus was able to forgive sins because he was the Son of God.
"The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into his hand" John 3:35.
You need to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.
j4jesus09
New member
Strongly disagree with your understanding. Who commanded the sacrifices of animals in leviticus to be shed for sins? God does desire repentance of course but some things must be done until the lamb came. revelation 13:8b states the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world. So even though the plan and purpose had already been concluded in God's mind the act must still be done in the present or the fullness of time. This is very crazy my brother or sister for you to claim the work of what Jesus did was not die for the world and particulary you and I. What he was killed for was just an EXCUSE to kill him. He went as he was ordained to go! INNOCENT, BLAMELESS, SINLESS. They could have accused him of a drunkard, oh they did, maybe the devil, oh they did, they could have accused him of blasphmey, oh they did, so he was accused of many different things. High treason is totally a cop out! This was craziest thing I have heard in a while.