Theology Club: ARE THE 12 APOSTLES IN or OUT of the Body of Christ ??

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
I don't know why they did not carry out the command of the great commission. May you can enlighten me.
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I already did. According to prophecy the Gentiles would be brought in when the Lord had endowed Israel with splendor:

"Surely you will summon nations you know not, and nations that do not know you will hasten to you, because of the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, for he has endowed you with splendor" (Isa.55:5; NIV).​

That hadn't happened yet so the Apostles did not go to the Gentiles. They also knew from the following prophecy that the Gentiles would not be receptive to the Jews until they knew that the Lord was with the Jews:

"And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

The Apostles knew that condition was not yet fulfilled so they did not go to the Gentiles.
 
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Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
The preaching of the mystery (the gospel of grace) was not an alternative to Israel's failure.

Instead, it was the Lord's chosen way of bringing Gentiles to salvation. Who are you to question the method the Lord chose to save Gentiles?
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No; it was that aspect of the Lord's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

It was that aspect known as the Mystery.

The Mystery is God's foreknown response to that other fall; the Adversary's and his dark princes' opposition to His eternal purpose concerning the Heavenlies, 1 Cor. 2; Eph. 1.

Israel's fall is just where in time He had planned to unfold the Mystery, Rom. 11 - it is not some sort of an alternative response to Israel's failure.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Danoh said:
No; it was that aspect of the Lord's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

It was that aspect known as the Mystery.
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It was the Lord who chose how the Gentiles would be saved. And He chose the gospel according to the revelation of the mystery.

Do you have a problem with that?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jerry Shugart said:
So? What does that have to do with the way that the Lord chose to save the Gentiles?
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I'm just making conversation and not necessarily picking up where someone else left off.

According to prophecy, In the kingdom (future), Gentiles will be blessed through Israel's rise:

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Zechariah 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.



According to mystery, in the Body, in the dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV), salvation came unto the Gentiles through Israel's fall:

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
 
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Danoh

New member
heir said:
I'm just making conversation and not necessarily picking up where someone else left off.

According to prophecy, In the kingdom (future), Gentiles will be blessed through Israel's rise:

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Zechariah 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.



According to mystery, in the Body, in the dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV), salvation came unto the Gentiles through Israel's fall:

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
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A question worth considering - was Paul hoping to provoke them to jealousy that he "might save some" into their Prophesied kingdom?

If not, then unto what, then?

Again; Paul was not preaching God's Prophesied aspect of His Two-Fold Plan and Purpose; as it was on hold: Romans 2, 3, 9-11, 15.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Danoh said:
A question worth considering - was Paul hoping to provoke them to jealousy that he "might save some" into their Prophesied kingdom?

If not, then unto what, then?

Again; Paul was not preaching God's Prophesied aspect of His Two-Fold Plan and Purpose; as it was on hold: Romans 2, 3, 9-11, 15.
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During his Acts provoking ministry, Paul was gathering a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew into the Body!
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
I think he raised up Paul because the 12 didn't go. Paul was chosen, he went.
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Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


Paul was chosen to fill up the afflictions of Christ, and complete the word of God.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Bright Raven said:
I don't know why they did not carry out the command of the great commission. May you can enlighten me.
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Ok, I will. The twelve went to where they were assigned by Jesus after his resurrection and before his ascension. Each of the twelve was assigned to a tribe of Israel.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:29-30 NKJV)​

The twelve were assigned to Israel, one for each tribe, but the Abrahamic covenant included Gentiles. God needed an apostle to the Gentile nations so he chose Paul who was from the city of Tarsus, a major city at the time. Since Paul was a Roman citizen he could travel the Roman empire at will.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jacob said:
Shalom.

Can we establish first that there were 12 apostles?

Shalom.

Jacob
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Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Matthew 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
heir said:
Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Matthew 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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Yep... It's quite clear that these twelve are tightly coupled to Israel.

Matt 19:28 (KJV)​
(19:28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

​
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Jacob

Jacob

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Banned
heir said:
Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Matthew 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Matthew 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Click to expand...

Shalom.

Yes. The twelve disciples.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Jacob said:
Shalom.

Yes. The twelve disciples.

Shalom.

Jacob
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What's your agenda Jacob? What are you trying to get at? Why are you beating around the bush?

Matt 10:1-4 (KJV)​
(10:1) And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. (10:2) Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother; (10:3) Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; (10:4) Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
​

THOSE twelve disciples were the twelve apostles as this scripture clearly shows.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Banned
Right Divider said:
What's your agenda Jacob? What are you trying to get at? Why are you beating around the bush?

Matt 10:1-4 (KJV)​
(10:1) And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. (10:2) Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother; (10:3) Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; (10:4) Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
​

THOSE twelve disciples were the twelve apostles as this scripture clearly shows.
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Shalom.

Yes. You are correct.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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