Patrick is mad? I don't know; doesn't seem mad to me.
Sad perhaps; but certainly not mad, lol
ECT How is Paul's message different?
- Thread starter Clete
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Patrick is mad? I don't know; doesn't seem mad to me.
Sad perhaps; but certainly not mad, lol
turbosixx
New member
Did Paul preach one gospel for Jews and a different one for Gentiles?
lifeisgood
New member
Please explain where, in the above verse you provided, Paul said anything about he/him/himself preaching to the Jew or Gentile.
(Acts 13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
I understand the basis of your point and agree with said basis.
Unfortunately, we are dealing with individuals so intent on proving their own point that they do not appear to pause and reflect a bit on what our point might be.
In fact, even should they ask, our answer will often go misunderstood.
Its not so much that people are stupid.
Rather, that where they tend to look at things from tends to keep them from actually seeing it.
Sort of like when one finds one's keys in the very place one had looked for them in several times before only to conclude each time "they're not here..."
And yet, there those keys later turn out having been, all along...
lifeisgood
New member
This is the verse you provided
(Rom 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Which is different than the one you have provided now.
lifeisgood
New member
No, turbosixx, it has always been the same Gospel.
The Lord Jesus said the Gospel was preached to Abraham and Abraham rejoiced over it (John 8:56).
If you can think this way, the 'incomplete' Gospel was preached by all before Paul because God had not revealed all of His Gospel until Paul.
To Paul was given the final piece of God's Plan (DBR) and now the complete Gospel can be seen and no one better than Paul to make the presentation of the Gospel of God for he has all the pieces in front of him.
It has always been the same Gospel.
Hidden in the OT.
Revealed in the NT.
Acts 13:46 and Rom 1:16 both show that Paul preached the gospel to the Jews first.
You can try and spin it all you want in your desperate attempt to make your MAD fit the Bible, but no matter how hard you try, you won't be able to do it.
What a mess you are.
MAD claims the gospel preached by Peter to the "kingdom believers" required works in addition to their faith, and that the law of Moses was still in place.
So, if that was the "incomplete gospel" (your words), and then the "complete gospel" was later revealed to Paul, then there would have been a change in the gospel.
The more you guys try to prove MAD, the more MAD is exposed for what it is..... a false doctrine that cannot stand up to the test of scripture.
MAD is a mess.
lifeisgood
New member
No, not spinning anything. Simply trying to respond to your inquiries with the verse provided, which was incomplete as you gave incomplete information.
I am not MAD, have no idea what MAD is; however, I can see that Paul preach the COMPLETED Plan of God to the Jew and to the Gentile alike.
The plan of God has always been to the Jew first and the Jew was to go throughout the nations preaching Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.
As the Plan of God cannot be stopped God chose a vessel, Paul, to go to Jews and Gentiles alike. Those Jews accepting Paul's preaching were saved and those Gentiles accepting Paul's preaching were also saved.
So, I have no idea what your issue is with Paul.
lifeisgood
New member
Thank you.
Peter had to be 'hit on the head' many years after the completed Gospel was seen by him and the other disciples, before he saw that the Gospel was to the Gentiles also.
Can you not for once read for understanding TeT?
Completing something does not mean that that something is different after it is completed than when it was going through the process of completion.
No one before Paul understood the completed Gospel, therefore, before Paul, all continued preaching the incomplete Gospel (yes, my words), even though they saw the completed Gospel unfold before their own eyes.
Preterism is a mess, for it provides no hope for now.
Quit plagiarizing my saying on TOL, you pathetic loser.
And get a job, you leach of society. And pay attention to your "family,"including those kids, that you ignore, instead of spending half of your loser life on TOL.
turbosixx
New member
I do believe it's the same gospel but Peter preached the DBR.
Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
And that Jesus was now Lord and Christ.
2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ-this Jesus whom you crucified."
Nope, nah, and no, Acts 3:19-21; Rom. 16:25-26.
What does Paul say? He specifically mentions gradual revelation, and Luke mentions specifics of his early ministry. What does the Bible say?
turbosixx
New member
Is this what you're talking about?
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
lifeisgood
New member
The Lord had to give Peter a vision (not once, but three times) before Peter began to understand that the completed Gospel was to be preached also to the Gentile. This vision was given years after Jesus completed Gospel was unfolded before Peter's own eyes. Peter really was not in too much of an agreement with the Lord even though the Lord told Him to go to Cornelius' house.
AFTER Peter saw what the Lord did in the house of Cornelius, Peter had sort of an aha moment, but still he did not quite grasp it. He could see it, he could touch it, but the UNDERSTANDING escaped him.
That understanding God saw fit to give to Paul. It wasn't an easy thing for Paul to understand either. Remember he had to experience Romans 7, before he could write Romans 6, so Romans 8 can be understood.
Paul preaches the UNDERSTANDING of what Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary really means.
Peter did not preach the understanding for a long time. Peter preached the mechanics of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary for many years.
This is not easy to understand. It takes a while for us to permit the Lord to open up our eyes to His truth.
I believe that by II Peter 3, Peter not only knew the mechanics but now also had God's understanding for Peter is defending Paul's preaching of the completed Gospel he, Paul, preached and they were by this time preaching exactly the same Gospel.
II Peter 3:16 --- As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Peter loved the Lord supremely and so did Paul.
May we also love the Lord the way these two did.
lifeisgood
New member
Same Gospel for God ONLY has ONE since before the foundation of the world.
Incomplete understanding of God's Gospel for one (Peter).
Complete understanding of God's Gospel for the other (Paul).
There are many Christians who love the Lord supremely in these our modern times who are like Peter and others who are like Paul and it has brought much discourse in the BOC but in the end, they both agree --- Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary is the ONLY way to Salvation. There is no other way, for no other way is needed.
The above is a lie that MADists keep spreading.
Let's look at Peter's own words regarding God telling him to go to Cornelius' house:
(Acts 10:29) So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”
As we see above, Peter's own worlds prove you wrong.
lifeisgood
New member
Oh, Tet, Oh, Tet, Oh, Tet. :doh:
But Peter said, “Never, Lord! For not once in my life have I ever eaten anything common or unclean.”
While Peter was still speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to his message. The Jewish believers who had come with Peter were absolutely amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit was being poured out on Gentiles also; for they heard them speaking in foreign tongues and glorifying God.
Then Peter exclaimed, “Could anyone refuse water or object to these men being baptised—men who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did ourselves?”
And THEN times later even though Peter saw it, Peter touched it, Peter understood Paul's understanding, Peter was still not in too much agreement with the Lord:
Gal. 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?