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Thread: REPORT: God's plan of salvation

  1. #31
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear View Post
    Every "Christian" who has swallowed the swindle of "God's Gift" should go immediately to their nearest dictionary and look up the meaning of the word, "gift".

    That Pauline false teaching about accepting "God's gift of eternal life" is not about a gift at all, but a contract. If you all had read your dictionaries as well as you follow Paul Simon says, you'd know that a gift is not a gift when it comes with strings attached. That "gift" of eternal life has big strings attached so it's no gift at all but as I say, a contract: you do this, you get that. You don't do this, you get punished. Some "gift". This is the worst sort of coercion to get people to believe in God by scare tactics and it's pathetic for those of us who have formed a spiritual bond with God and the Spirit of Christ which is one of Family whereas yours is one of slave to a harsh Master. Read what Jesus says about that slave relationship in John's Gospel sometime..
    We's sons and daughters, we rejoice to please our dear Father, we mourn to displease Him especially so as whether we please Him or displease Him our salvation is assured, such grace. Yes there is sin if it be wilful and persisted in that will bring punishment to us here in this life, it grieves the Fatherheart of God to have to discipline His children.

    What father does not discipline his children? Even if God punish us we can take comfort that we are children and no bastards.
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    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

  2. #32
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    Every one who knows of Gods Plan for Salvation knows that we are saved by Grace. Yet there is a wide diversity in the meaning of Saved by Grace.

    I once saw a man who had figured out the whole thing. He had two lists. One list showed all that God has done, the other list showed everything that man had to do. God's list he called Grace. Man's list he called "Whatever.... insert your pet doctrine". The latest fad has been to call Man's List "relationship with Jesus" or "accepting His gift"

    It reminds me of the song by the Who, "Won't Get Fooled Again". As the song comes to its end the music builds up to a great crescndo wherein the singer gives out a loud primeval scream, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

    As long as you think there is some list of human reaction required by man, no matter how small, you have mixed the Grace of God with human works.

    Mixing Grace with "acceptance of the gift" will deter any further spiritual growth.

    ........Jul Must
    Last edited by Jul Must; November 29th, 2012 at 12:12 PM. Reason: add quotes

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    What Did The Apostle Peter Say?

    Hello everyone,

    Someone wrote:

    "Humble yourself before God and admit that you are a sinner. Tell God that you realize that the price for your debt is death, but that you accept His gift and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your (personal) sins. Tell Him that you believe that He raised Jesus from the dead, showing that you also will be raised. Then thank Him. What a wonderful Father. He made the entire universe, the billions of stars and planets and galaxies. He constructed the incredible complexity of the human brain. He holds all of creation together by the power of His spoken Word. That He would be willing to come to us, to be humbled and beaten and spit upon and even to suffer the death of the cross, for you and me, that is a God to love. A God to thank and to praise forever and ever. How wonderful is His name."
    The first occurrence of the gospel of Christ being preached is recorded in Acts 2. Every word that came forth from the mouth of Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    At the end of the message, when the people there knew that they were guilty of sin and asked, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Did the Holy Spirit respond with the words above, starting with, "Humble yourself before God and admit that you are a sinner."? No. Rather, the Spirit immediately answered their question with this command:


    "And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38

    So there is a two-part command for everyone to obey: "Repent" and "be baptized."
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    Question:

    If salvation by grace means that man's works have nothing to do with being saved, then what is the meaning of these words in Heb. 5:9 --- "And he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."
    Last edited by servantofChrist; March 14th, 2013 at 09:33 PM. Reason: Forgot to put my msg in bold type. Clarified. Clarified again.
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    This post "malfunctioned" and ended up being duplicated.
    Last edited by servantofChrist; March 14th, 2013 at 09:30 PM. Reason: The response I got the first time said to wait 30 seconds and then try again. I thought that that meant type it over again.
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    What Did Peter Say?

    Another Question:

    If salvation is a gift that requires nothing on the part of man except to simply accept it, then why did Peter NOT say that to the Jews when he told them (in Acts 2) that they had put to death the Son of God, and then they asked, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

    Did he say, "All you have to do is just accept God's gift of salvation!"

    No, he didn't. He immediately answered their question with a two-part command which, in the Greek, was given in the imperative mood -- meaning that obedience to those two commands ("repent and be baptized") was not optional; it was required of them.
    Last edited by servantofChrist; March 14th, 2013 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Clarification
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    Quote Originally Posted by servantofChrist View Post
    Question:

    If salvation by grace means that man's works have nothing to do with being saved, then what is the meaning of these words in Heb. 5:9 --- "And he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."
    Quote Originally Posted by servantofChrist View Post
    Another Question:

    If salvation is a gift that requires nothing on the part of man except to simply accept it, then why did Peter NOT say that to the Jews when he told them (in Acts 2) that they had put to death the Son of God, and then they asked, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

    Did he say, "All you have to do is just accept God's gift of salvation!"

    No, he didn't. He immediately answered their question with a two-part command which, in the Greek, was given in the imperative mood -- meaning that obedience to those two commands ("repent and be baptized") was not optional; it was required of them.
    Learn about dispensations.


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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Did you know that salvation is absolutely free? and that we do not have to do anything to get saved? Well what do the Scriptures teach? Lets see.

    Well, John 3:16 is the most famous verse ever quoted in the world but I want you to see and hear what Jesus said just two verses earlier in verse 14 Jesus is pointing to a historical event to make a point about God's love.

    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; (John 3:14 ASV)

    The event happened when God led the Jews out from Egypt. As was their habit the people grumbled and sinned while out in the wilderness on their way to the promised land. God responds by judging and disciplining them and on this occasion God sent serpents into their midst:

    And Jehovah sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. (Numbers 21:6 ASV)

    The people of Israel then do their normal thing - they ask Moses to pray for them for forgiveness from The Lord. Moses prays and God forgives them:

    And the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, because we have spoken against Jehovah, and against thee; pray unto Jehovah, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. (Numbers 21:7 ASV)

    God forgives the people but on one condition: Moses is to hold the serpent up for the congregation to gaze upon.

    Then the Lord said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." (Numbers 21:8 NASB)

    It was not how guilty they felt or how long they stared at it in the heat of the desert sun, it was simply the look of faith.

    And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (Numbers 21:9 NASB)

    If they were hard hearted and stiff necked they died in their sins.

    Let's continue on now with Jesus's words:

    so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:15, 16 NASB)

    God has lifted up our object of faith, Jesus the Messiah on a cross. We are to humble ourselves, coming to the realization that personal righteousness and holiness is outside of our capabilities, and look to our God and Father who said:

    so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (John 3:15, 17 NASB)

    If we refuse to believe that salvation is by grace alone thru faith alone in Messiah alone plus nothing then we are not really believing on Him that was sent and are under the following judgement:

    so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:15, 18 NASB)

    If you have followed the teachings of any other variation from what the bible clearly states concerning the content of faith for salvation then you have accepted the accusation of other religions teaching concerning not only these simple words of Christ but all of the other passages of scripture concerning God's free offer of imputed righteousness.

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    Show me where in the scriptures that it says "salvation is a gift that requires nothing on the part of man except to simply accept it."
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Romans 3:24: being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

    God bless u servant

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    I Know About Dispensations

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Learn about dispensations.
    I know about dispensations, I just don't know what your meaning is here. These words in question were written to Jews who were living under the New Covenant.

    In verse 5, the writer cites words of prophecy in Psa. 2:7. Then in verse 6, he makes reference to Melchizedek, citing Psa. 110:4.

    But he does that to lay the basis for what he is about to say to them next. Then he shifts their thinking from those O. T. passages and brings them forward, making reference to Christ.

    It's perfectly clear that Heb. 5:9 is not pointing back to the old dispensation, but rather is speaking of the new ("Christian") one that those Jews were living in: because he speaks of Christ and the eternal salvation that He offers to "those who OBEY HIM."

    Perhaps you're the one who needs to learn about "dispensations."
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    Well Said, "IntoJoy"

    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Romans 3:24: being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

    God bless u servant
    Well said, "intojoy," and God bless you. But this is a single statement of truth talking about God being the Originator and Provider of man's salvation. It doesn't mention man's response because it wasn't intended to. Yet, the Bible makes it clear that man's response to what God has provided, is required for his salvation: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matt. 7:21) Transpose the last part of the verse and it would read: "He who does the will of My Father in heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Which implies that those who don't, won't!

    From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible shows that redemption consists of two parts --- God's and man's. God is, of course, the Great Provider, providing what we could have never provided for ourselves: the forgiveness of our sins by Christ's blood shed on the cross, and our resurrection made possible by His resurrection from the dead.

    But then God lays out His will for us in writing (the written New Testament) and says that only those who "do" that will shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Have you ever noticed how much teaching and instruction there is in the New Testament? That's a LOT of will for us to "do"!

    I guess I always wonder why, if no response on our part is required except just to accept what God has given, nothing more, then why are there hundreds of commands in the New Testament for us to obey (many of them given in the imperative mood) with regard to holy living and lifelong spiritual growth, and all of warnings and admonitions given to us, and writing to Christians about the horrors of Hell. Why all of that if no response on our part is required except to merely "accept" what God has given, and then it's a done deal?

    I've gotta go for now. I'll check back when I can. Blessings to all of you : )
    Last edited by servantofChrist; September 25th, 2013 at 04:37 AM. Reason: to add a close to my post.
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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    Quote Originally Posted by servantofChrist View Post
    I know about dispensations, I just don't know what your meaning is here. These words in question were written to Jews who were living under the New Covenant.

    In verse 5, the writer cites words of prophecy in Psa. 2:7. Then in verse 6, he makes reference to Melchizedek, citing Psa. 110:4.

    But he does that to lay the basis for what he is about to say to them next. Then he shifts their thinking from those O. T. passages and brings them forward, making reference to Christ.

    It's perfectly clear that Heb. 5:9 is not pointing back to the old dispensation, but rather is speaking of the new ("Christian") one that those Jews were living in: because he speaks of Christ and the eternal salvation that He offers to "those who OBEY HIM."

    Perhaps you're the one who needs to learn about "dispensations."
    We're not under the covenant spoken of in Hebrews; we're under the dispensation of the grace of God, which was preached by the apostle to the Gentiles: Paul. Hebrews was written to whom the title suggests.


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    Romans 5:20: And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly.

    Ephesians 2:5-8: even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

    In every age God has given commandments to man and in every age man has broken them.

    You're right about the multitude of commandments before you and I in this age, that's a correct observation. In James alone we are given scores of laws to obey. Loving my wife is a command of the law of Liberty - the law of Christ, I see this as non optional as something the Word teaches to be obeyed.

    The fascinating thing about the Laws of David's day to me is the fact that God intentionally gave it to him with the purpose of revealing sin and increasing sin in David's life. It revealed and increased sin because it gave a holy standard and left David to try to gain righteousness by following that standard. David failed miserably. I used to think that it was the laws fault but it wasn't the law, it was the weakness of the flesh to operate under the law (Mosaic Law of 613 commands). David's attitude toward this curve ball of commandments? He said the law was his delight and he meditated in it day and night - what a guy!

    I believe that David knew salvation was a gift of grace apart from keeping the law. He said so on several occasions. I believe I am saved by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing. But my life is lived and judged on how I follow the teachings of the bible. I have been blessed and suffered discipline based on my decisions to be obedient to or disobedient to the Law of Christ which includes every New Testament commandment. Some of the Laws of Moses are repeated in the NT and I believe that the Noahic Covenant is still valid for us to follow.

    Sorry for not keeping this short. I understand your passion and concern and desire to serve God, I see myself wanting to do the same but I believe that we who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit have been enabled by God to live sanctified and spiritually mature lived unlike David who not only was given a law that he could never keep but also prayed a prayer to never have the Spirit removed from him as it was from Saul. You and I cannot pray that prayer nor sing that beautiful song -" take not thy Holy Spirit from me" because He abides in us eternally.

    Thus on the basis of the grace of God we obey and not that we obey to receive that grace, I believe that is the scriptural balance between works and grace that we work because we've already been saved.

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    Clarification Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by webby View Post
    The most important question that anyone will ever be required to answer in life is the same question that will determine the true quality to which that life can be lived for all eternity. The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" The answer to this one question will determine eternity for you. The question is not, "Are you a good person?" or, "Do you go to church?" Or even, "Do you have a knowledge that Jesus Christ lived and died?" The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation. If you decide not to accept God’s gift, then you will spend eternity burdened with the debt of your sin and all of its horrible consequences. God is a gentleman and will not force anyone to live with Him. He has given us the free choice to accept and love Him, or to reject and be apart from Him.

    Who needs the gift
    The Bible tells us that everyone is in need of God’s great mercy: Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

    A price to be paid
    The debt, or price of sin, is separation from God who is holy. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death…"

    Payment in full
    But God is loving and wants to have fellowship with His children. Like any good father, He does not want us to die. However, He is a just God and could not simply pretend that we had never sinned and allow us to go free without the debt being paid. So He made a way for us to come back into union with Him, and still maintain justice so that the debt is paid in full. God Himself paid our price, not with the wink of an eye, but with His own blood. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    Salvation
    However, a gift, no matter how great and wonderful, is useless if it is not accepted. In order to benefit from God’s sacrifice for us, you must accept the gift. The Bible states: Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Putting it all together
    The choice is as simple as it is vital. Humble yourself before God and admit that you are a sinner. Tell God that you realize that the price for your debt is death, but that you accept His gift and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your (personal) sins. Tell Him that you believe that He raised Jesus from the dead, showing that you also will be raised. Then thank Him. What a wonderful Father. He made the entire universe, the billions of stars and planets and galaxies. He constructed the incredible complexity of the human brain. He holds all of creation together by the power of His spoken Word. That He would be willing to come to us, to be humbled and beaten and spit upon and even to suffer the death of the cross, for you and me, that is a God to love. A God to thank and to praise forever and ever. How wonderful is His name.
    If you said to me, "I'm offering you a gift of $1,000 (wishful thinking!)," and I replied, "Thank you, I accept it." Before the money is actually put it into my hand, I have already accepted your offer when I decided to in my mind.

    You said, "The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation."

    But then you added to that these two things in Rom. 10:9 (1) confessing the LORD Jesus, and (2) believing with one's heart that God has raised him from the dead.

    That goes beyond merely accepting God's gift of salvation. So which one is it?

    What if an unbeliever, who has no intention of ever turning to Christ, is told that all he has to do is just "accept God's gift of salvation," he doesn't have to do anything else because the gift is free and unconditional. And he says, "Sure, I'll accept it, since I can keep on living my life the way I want to."
    Last edited by servantofChrist; September 27th, 2013 at 06:19 AM. Reason: clarification
    God bless...

    s-o-C

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