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Thread: One on One: Mr. 5020 & Knight (II)

  1. #31
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    God's foreknowledge does not interfere with your choice.
    Hmmm... that seems to be an answer to a question that I didn't ask.

    What I asked was....

    Do I have the ability to choose otherwise and render God's foreknowledge incorrect?
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  2. #32
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Hmmm... that seems to be an answer to a question that I didn't ask.

    What I asked was....

    Do I have the ability to choose otherwise and render God's foreknowledge incorrect?
    It's a trick question, to an extent. God already knows the choice you will make. Therefore, if you choose not to smoke crack, God knows you will not smoke crack. If you choose to smoke crack, God knows you will do so.

  3. #33
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    It's a trick question, to an extent. God already knows the choice you will make. Therefore, if you choose not to smoke crack, God knows you will not smoke crack. If you choose to smoke crack, God knows you will do so.
    It isn't a trick question at all, yet you are avoiding the answer.

    Let me ask it again.... (it's a simple yes or no question)

    Do I have the ability to choose otherwise and render God's foreknowledge incorrect?
    Last edited by Knight; November 21st, 2005 at 11:27 PM.
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  4. #34
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    It isn't a trick question at all, yet you are avoiding the answer.

    Let me ask it again.... (it's a simple yes or no question)

    Do I have the ability to choose otherwise and render God's foreknowledge incorrect?
    The parameters that I have set in this thread don't allow for a 'yes' or 'no' answer. You have the choice to choose whatever you want, but God knows what that choice will be. What you're assuming in your argument is that I believe God made your choice for you. What I am saying is that you will make the choice. God simply knows what that choice will be.
    Last edited by Mr. 5020; November 21st, 2005 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Added the lighter (grey) text

  5. #35
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    What you're assuming in your argument is that I believe God made your choice for you. What I am saying is that you will make the choice. God simply knows what that choice will be.
    So... you are not going to answer the question are you?

    Earlier in this thread you agreed that God used prophecy as a means to affect our future choices. Yet if God already knows our future choices why on earth would He attempt to influence those choices if He already knows what actual choice would be made?
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  6. #36
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    So... you are not going to answer the question are you?
    Which part did I not respond to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Earlier in this thread you agreed that God used prophecy as a means to affect our future choices. Yet if God already knows our future choices why on earth would He attempt to influence those choices if He already knows what actual choice would be made?
    Because He also knows what it took to influence you into making that decision.

  7. #37
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    Which part did I not respond to?
    The YES or NO part.

    Because He also knows what it took to influence you into making that decision.
    So what came first? His knowledge of what it took for you to come to your choice (the influences) or the choice itself?

    In other words... was there a point in time when God thought your choice would be otherwise so He therefore knew He needed to influence your choice? Or was He always aware of your final choice and the influencing was merely "going through the motions"? (so to speak)
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    The YES or NO part.
    That is untrue. In post #34, I stated...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    The parameters that I have set in this thread don't allow for a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    In other words... was there a point in time when God thought your choice would be otherwise so He therefore knew He needed to influence your choice?
    No, because that would make God wrong.

  9. #39
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    That is untrue. In post #34, I stated...
    No, because that would make God wrong.
    If that is true it would be futile for God to attempt to influence a choice that He has known for a millennia in advance that would be made.

    Think about it!

    CASE STUDY:

    According to you....

    A millennia prior to Jonah's prophecy to Nineveh God knew that Nineveh would repent and would not be destroyed. Therefore why did God bother to give Nineveh their prophecy of destruction via Jonah?

    Keep in mind you have already acknowledged that prophecy is given to influence future choices.

    Talk to ya tomorrow! (I am going to bed)
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    If that is true it would be futile for God to attempt to influence a choice that He has known for a millennia in advance that would be made.

    Think about it!

    CASE STUDY:

    According to you....

    A millennia prior to Jonah's prophecy to Nineveh God knew that Nineveh would repent and would not be destroyed. Therefore why did God bother to give Nineveh their prophecy of destruction via Jonah?
    I don't understand you anymore. Sleep deprivation, perhaps. God knew that Nineveh would repent if God allowed Jonah to prophecy possible destruction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Talk to ya tomorrow! (I am going to bed)
    Good idea....

  11. #41
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    I don't understand you anymore. Sleep deprivation, perhaps. God knew that Nineveh would repent if God allowed Jonah to prophecy possible destruction.
    Good idea....
    You cannot have your cake and eat it to.

    You have already agreed that God uses prophecy to INFLUENCE human choices.

    Therefore God's prophecy to Nineveh was given to INFLUENCE their choices and hopefully bring to pass repentance.

    If God had ALREADY seen Nineveh's repentance no prophecy would be needed to INFLUENCE human choices because all choices had already been settled in advance. Actually.... the very fact that you acknowledge that prophecy is used to INFLUENCE human choices contradicts your assertion that God already knows the future exhaustively.

    OK, I think it's pretty obvious that you are willing to accept the contradiction in your theology regarding this issue so lets move on.

    QUESTION: If God has exhaustive knowledge of the future in every detail could there ever be a time that God would experiance an event that He wasn't expecting to happen?
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  12. #42
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    I'll respond tomorrow.

  13. #43
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    I'll respond tomorrow.
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  14. #44
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    I'm sorry. Once again, my free time has become scarce. I'll respond as soon as possible.

  15. #45
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    I'm sorry. Once again, my free time has become scarce. I'll respond as soon as possible.
    No worries.
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