I Am Pro-Abortion

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
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So, you intentionally kill the mother instead?
This is both a false dichotomy and in complete disregard for the words I clearly wrote. It is never necessary to intentionally kill the baby to save the life of the mother. No procedure that might save the mother's life requires the surgeon to stop mid-operation and sever the child's spinal cord.

This is one of the cases in which I believe aborting the pregnancy needs to be an option.
Fortunately, you can drop this requirement now, as it has been shown completely unnecessary.

What other cases do you think override the right to life of people?

In your world Stripe twice as many supposed "humans beings" suffer death than go on to experience life.
Everyone dies.

Your discomfort with that fact is of no rational use to this conversation.

That apparently awful ongoing human tragedy seems to pass you by without a care. Clearly you are an evil, callous and heartless person.
Because you can read minds? What do you know of my situation and empathy for the fact that many people lose babies?

All those poor "tiny human beings" should surely cause you more concern, pause for thought?
Imagining a lack of empathy on my part does not cover that you turn a blind eye to the fact that babies — of a size at which even you would concede personhood — are torn apart by abortion.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
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So, you intentionally kill the mother instead? Both are awful outcomes, but this is one of the cases in which I believe aborting the pregnancy needs to be an option.

No, you intentionally care for and TREAT both individuals, the mother and her unborn baby. The goal should always be focused onTWO lives, not one. The pro-abortion advocate's intention is to destroy ONE life. Big difference.
 

alwight

New member
Everyone dies.
Death is what happens to persons who have experienced life.

Your discomfort with that fact is of no rational use to this conversation.
It isn't me who should experience discomfort since in my world a person only develops beyond the zygote stage and well after the chances of survival have become considerably better.

Because you can read minds? What do you know of my situation and empathy for the fact that many people lose babies?
Except that it isn't about reading minds it's about reading what you say. If you really do believe that "tiny human beings" exist at conception then why aren't you in an angry rage that so many more will die rather than live?
I suggest you are not angry or worried because you know just as well as I do that only a possible and potential human being is still involved at that stage. There is no ongoing human tragedy in progress to feel uncomfortable about, it's just the normal way of things.

Imagining a lack of empathy on my part does not cover that you turn a blind eye to the fact that babies — of a size at which even you would concede personhood — are torn apart by abortion.
All I attempt to do is argue for at least some place for choice, whether to remain pregnant or not, against those who would dogmatically forbid any choice, at any stage, regardless, under any circumstances.
Aborting a healthy, near full term, foetus, inside a healthy woman is not my aim, which since it isn't and should never be legal imo is simply an emotive red herring here.
But I do reject the dogma that simply wants to deny any reasonable and responsible early choice to abort under any circumstances, which is what I consider to be the main problem while pro-lifers will no doubt regard as the thin end of a wedge, if so, too bad .:rolleyes:
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Death is what happens to persons who have experienced life.
At conception, the baby is alive.

A person only develops beyond the zygote stage.
An arbitrary line you draw in an attempt to justify your desire that you be allowed to kill people who do not qualify for personhood, in your world.

Except that it isn't about reading minds it's about reading what you say. If you really do believe that "tiny human beings" exist at conception then why aren't you in an angry rage that so many more will die rather than live?
Because it's not murder. It's tragic and sad, but there is no injustice.

There is no ongoing human tragedy.
Which shows you up for a heartless wretch. A couple get married and try in vain for a decade to start a family and finally conceive, but then lose their child at a stage when you want to call him a non-person. Go and speak to their faces and tell them they should feel "no tragedy."

All I attempt to do is argue for at least some place for choice, whether to remain pregnant or not.
For which you invent an arbitrary line to rule who qualifies as a person; an attempt to justify your endorsement of the killing of those who fall short of your standard.

against those who would dogmatically forbid any choice, at any stage, regardless, under any circumstances.
You do not have the right to choose murder.

Aborting a healthy, near full term, foetus, inside a healthy woman is not my aim
And yet, you turn a blind eye to it.

which since it isn't and should never be legal imo is simply an emotive red herring here.
Abortion is regulated through nine months of pregnancy everywhere it is available.
 

Quetzal

New member
This is both a false dichotomy and in complete disregard for the words I clearly wrote. It is never necessary to intentionally kill the baby to save the life of the mother. No procedure that might save the mother's life requires the surgeon to stop mid-operation and sever the child's spinal cord.
Are you a doctor? Are you sure this is the case?
 

Quetzal

New member
No, you intentionally care for and TREAT both individuals, the mother and her unborn baby. The goal should always be focused onTWO lives, not one. The pro-abortion advocate's intention is to destroy ONE life. Big difference.
Right, and the hypothetical scenario is what if only one could be saved? In order for the mother to survive, due to some unforeseen complication, she needs to abort the pregnancy. I believe, in this case, abortion needs to be an option for her.
 

alwight

New member
At conception, the baby is alive.
No baby just a cell.

An arbitrary line you draw in an attempt to justify your desire that you be allowed to kill people who do not qualify for personhood, in your world.
You apparently arbitrarily bestow a single human cell with an equal value to an adult woman? :idunno:

Because it's not murder. It's tragic and sad, but there is no injustice.
Sorry Stripe but you really don't get to shrug away your supposed ongoing human tragedy that easily, what a crock. :rolleyes:

Which shows you up for a heartless wretch. A couple get married and try in vain for a decade to start a family and finally conceive, but then lose their child at a stage when you want to call him a non-person. Go and speak to their faces and tell them they should feel "no tragedy."
So now you try to dump your own callous and heartless nature onto me with a hastily contrived guilt trip scenario? :rolleyes:
However I wasn't talking about a confirmed pregnancy or a later term miscarriage this is still shortly after conception when nobody knows, before the embryo either embeds or more likely fails to. Which for you apparently still involves a "tiny human being" rather than a few cells representing a possible potential human being before it has developed.

For which you invent an arbitrary line to rule who qualifies as a person; an attempt to justify your endorsement of the killing of those who fall short of your standard.
I never claimed it was easy, only that it seems reasonable to me that a person is rather more than just a few albeit human cells.

You do not have the right to choose murder.
It's about the right for a woman to choose what will happen to her own body, and when she has babies, not my rights nor yours.

Aborting a healthy, near full term, foetus, inside a healthy woman is not my aim
And yet, you turn a blind eye to it.
I do? How did you arrive at that conclusion, are you a mind reader?

Abortion is regulated through nine months of pregnancy everywhere it is available.
Yes, there are usually time limits, after which a more justifiable argument will be required, say a medical problem.
I think it's rather good that these days women no longer have to die because of a pregnancy problem, although one woman did die during pregnancy recently in Ireland where all abortions are banned. If she had lived in England she would be alive today, but you perhaps find it tragic too, but a price worth paying? :plain:
 

OCTOBER23

New member
Mortal danger to the mother ?
---------------------------------

Where is the MORTAL DANGER if she is in a Hospital.

Only Pimps and Prostitutes would be in Favour of Abortions.
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Right, and the hypothetical scenario is what if only one could be saved? In order for the mother to survive, due to some unforeseen complication, she needs to abort the pregnancy. I believe, in this case, abortion needs to be an option for her.

Since you want to do hypothetical, let's introduce an (hypothetical) artficial womb to the equation. Here is a hint. Not saving the baby because you are not able, is not the samre thing as killing the baby on porpose.
 

Quetzal

New member
Mortal danger to the mother ?
---------------------------------

Where is the MORTAL DANGER if she is in a Hospital.

Only Pimps and Prostitutes would be in Favour of Abortions.
Saying that someone is some how immune to mortal harm because they are in a hospital simply isn't accurate.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Right, and the hypothetical scenario is what if only one could be saved? In order for the mother to survive, due to some unforeseen complication, she needs to abort the pregnancy. I believe, in this case, abortion needs to be an option for her.

In that case, why would you assume that chop and dice is preferable to delivering the unborn baby and *trying* to save him/her?
 

Quetzal

New member
In that case, why would you assume that chop and dice is preferable to delivering the unborn baby and *trying* to save him/her?
If the timeline is appropriate and it is a possibility to deliver the unborn baby early to save them, then this should be used, too! I agree.
 
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