Thoughts About Terrorists and Rioters:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?
Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?
An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext. Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.
Why not seize the assets of terrorists?
Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits? Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?
Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?
An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext. Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.
Why not seize the assets of terrorists?
Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits? Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

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Hold on, so you see a problem with the IRS' predatory nature, and the solution is to give them MORE power?

Are "families" of terrorists automatically guilty, even if they don't prove so in court?

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?
Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?
An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext. Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.
Why not seize the assets of terrorists?
Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits? Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

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Interesting question. I guess it would depend on the situation and the age of the children. While I don't wish to see ANY child punished for the criminal actions of their parent/parents, I am also concerned over whether or not some of these children have been influenced to the extent of being a future threat to our citizens.

Rusha said:

Interesting question. I guess it would depend on the situation and the age of the children. While I don't wish to see ANY child punished for the criminal actions of their parent/parents, I am also concerned over whether or not some of these children have been influenced to the extent of being a future threat to our citizens.

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That is also one of my concerns. The hatred exhibited by terrorists and rioters seems unamenable to change or amelioration.
The Ferguson rioters and their supporters want nothing short of abject groveling by whites and monstrous reparations.
The terrorists will settle for nothing short of world domination and are using every foul means available as they work to achieve their goals.
I am bewildered by such ingrained hatred.

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?

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Not if you like living in a Republic and under a Constitution that won't allow that sort of thing.

Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?

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Doubtful, though you wouldn't be able to accomplish seizing the assets of people who weren't materially involved in a crime.

An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext.

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Not without warrant and grounds by statute.

Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.

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Or by their own less than honest business practices.

Why not seize the assets of terrorists?

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I'm fine with it.

Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits?

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I think criminal activity is already grounds for that happening. In any event, the Governor of Louisiana is already pushing that.

Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

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Many a good kid came from a bad home and vice versa. We can't justifiably blame people for actions that aren't their own. Now if someone gives knowing aid and comfort to a terrorist or advances their cause, different story.

Town Heretic said:

Not if you like living in a Republic and under a Constitution that won't allow that sort of thing.


Doubtful, though you wouldn't be able to accomplish seizing the assets of people who weren't materially involved in a crime.


Not without warrant and grounds by statute.


Or by their own less than honest business practices.


I'm fine with it.


I think criminal activity is already grounds for that happening. In any event, the Governor of Louisiana is already pushing that.


Many a good kid came from a bad home and vice versa. We can't justifiably blame people for actions that aren't their own. Now if someone gives knowing aid and comfort to a terrorist or advances their cause, different story.

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Indeed....

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?
Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?

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Only in a small way. That is a but a cog in the wheel. The main focus should be military action, as George W Bush did, against islam on their soil. Wipe them out, it is the only thing they understand.

Town Heretic said:

Not if you like living in a Republic and under a Constitution that won't allow that sort of thing.


Doubtful, though you wouldn't be able to accomplish seizing the assets of people who weren't materially involved in a crime.


Not without warrant and grounds by statute.


Or by their own less than honest business practices.


I'm fine with it.


I think criminal activity is already grounds for that happening. In any event, the Governor of Louisiana is already pushing that.


Many a good kid came from a bad home and vice versa. We can't justifiably blame people for actions that aren't their own. Now if someone gives knowing aid and comfort to a terrorist or advances their cause, different story.

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Our constitution has been treated as dead letter with this issue. Ever heard of "civil asset forfeiture?" Thieving, squealing pigs love it...

Nick M said:

Only in a small way. That is a but a cog in the wheel. The main focus should be military action, as George W Bush did, against islam on their soil. Wipe them out, it is the only thing they understand.

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You've never read the Bible, have you?

BTW: Neither has Bush.

Christian Liberty said:

You've never read the Bible, have you?

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Ecclesiastes 3

8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace

When muslims chop heads off for not converting, it is a time to hate your neighbor and go to war. You ignorant child.

Christian Liberty said:

Our constitution has been treated as dead letter with this issue. Ever heard of "civil asset forfeiture?" .

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Sure. I'm a lawyer. 18 USC § 5324; 18 USC § 5317(c)(2) is where the problems started.

The IRS went grab happy and Congress passed CAFRA (Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act) fourteen years ago requiring a federal court to issue an ex parte warrant prior to any seizure of monies, making a showing of cause necessary and introducing the semblance of due process into a thing that was poorly cobbled. There's still a larger problem, to my mind, in that we don't have notice prior to seizure and an opportunity for a hearing that would greatly increase the chances that the non drug lords caught by honest mistake or over zealous reaching could be spared the longer and costlier process.

Anyway, once you have seizure it triggers a series of procedural windows. The government has 60 days to send a notice, the respondent 35 to object, then the government can, within 90 additional days, bring suit to attempt to hold onto the seizure or forfeit it. If they press suit the respondent can, by petition of the court and a show of necessity have funds seized released in part to meet obligations and upon winning the cause be awarded the cost of defense.

Thieving, squealing pigs love it..

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Do you understand why those were passed initially? What the point was and why Congress responded the way it did when the IRS failed to grasp and follow the spirit of the code?

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?
Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?
An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext. Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.
Why not seize the assets of terrorists?
Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits? Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

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Punishment doesn't work on the insane. And punishing someone else certainly doesn't. It's time for us to acknowledge this new form of ideological mental illness. The same as we have had to acknowledge drug and alcohol addiction, PTSD, and autism.

PureX said:

Punishment doesn't work on the insane. And punishing someone else certainly doesn't. It's time for us to acknowledge this new form of ideological mental illness. The same as we have had to acknowledge drug and alcohol addiction, PTSD, and autism.

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If not punishment then banishment, loss of freebies.

bybee said:

If not punishment then banishment, loss of freebies.

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Treatment, first, if there is one. After that, I don't know. Keep in mind we have plenty of Christian lunatics among us, too. Do you really want the government deciding what to do with them before they've committed any crime?

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven terrorists were deported?

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Punishment against families might have some effect, but it is usually illegal.

bybee said:

Would it help if the assets of proven terrorists and their families were seized?

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We do seize terrorist assets if we have the knowledge and the opportunity. Not generally their families though, as that would be illegal collective punishment, as above.

bybee said:

An interesting fact is that the IRS can and does seize the assets of taxpaying citizens on almost any pretext. Many citizens and businesses have been financial ruined by the predatory behavior of the IRS.
Why not seize the assets of terrorists?

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Indeed, fighting terrorism is one of the justifications for laws that permit civil asset forfeiture. The difficult thing is not establishing the principle, but rather figuring out which assets qualify.

bybee said:

Would it help if the families of proven rioters lost their welfare benefits?

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So, if your child did something wrong, you would end up on the streets, along with all your family? That's horrible. I'd rather see a thousand businesses burned.

bybee said:

Would the mammas of these destroyers of property and brutal assaults on defenseless people take a firmer grip on the behavior of their children if the largesse of the community were to be withdrawn?

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We might as well condemn the businesses for being so flammable and so tempting for mischief. As TH said, we can hardly hold people to account for actions that aren't their own.

rexlunae said:

Punishment against families might have some effect, but it is usually illegal.



We do seize terrorist assets if we have the knowledge and the opportunity. Not generally their families though, as that would be illegal collective punishment, as above.



Indeed, fighting terrorism is one of the justifications for laws that permit civil asset forfeiture. The difficult thing is not establishing the principle, but rather figuring out which assets qualify.



So, if your child did something wrong, you would end up on the streets, along with all your family? That's horrible. I'd rather see a thousand businesses burned.



We might as well condemn the businesses for being so flammable and so tempting for mischief. As TH said, we can hardly hold people to account for actions that aren't their own.

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The questions were rhetorical which I'm sure you understood.
But, It is my belief that parents are to train up their children to be law abiding citizens?

Generally guilt by association and collective punishment are consider immoral illegal and unjust.

They are tools of dictators and oppressors.

This Charming Manc said:

Generally guilt by association and collective punishment are consider immoral illegal and unjust.

They are tools of dictators and oppressors.

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...and most parents of more that one child... and teachers and coaches too.