ECT Madists are closet Calvinists
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SaulToPaul 2
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He challenged the "faith OF Christ".
I quoted irrefutable scripture.
He changed the subject and declared victory.
Typical, wouldn't you say, saint john?
"But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?" Mt. 22:18 KJV
Yes, mayor, typical, and the Lord Jesus Christ, the toughest "street preacher" who ever lived on earth, and who ever will live on earth, and a bible "nut," responds to the self righteous hypocrtite's "sidebar" questions, evasions, bait'nswitch, with tough, rough language, as He calls them actors, tells them off, let's them know, in no uncertain terms, that they are phonies/fakes, embarrasses them openly, and then cuts them up with his answer. He was rough. The book is rough. Accept it. We have, brother.
The way I see it, re. my "purpose", is that the LORD God placed me, during this stage of history, characterized by apostacy, to aggravate spineless, w/o backbone/vertebrae men and women, to shake them up, out of their slumber.
I know, I know.....MAD is gnosticism.....License to sin.....Not enough faith....God never changes...........
Cricket...."Short" these fools, at market.
What?
Are you now saying that the kingdom in verse 11 & 12 is an earthly physical kingdom, separate from the BOC (body of Christ)?
Matthew 8:11-12 KJV
(11) And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
(12) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(11) And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
(12) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
andyc
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You're insisting I changed the subject, but it is you applying the wrong interpretation to the passage in order to insert a theory that is unscriptural. Let's look at the passage and break it down.
Let's look at Galatians verses 6-14
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
And so we see that the subject is justification by faith, and using Abraham as the model for it. Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness. Through this justification a promise was made to him that he would father a child by supernatural birth who would be his physical Son. However, the promise that he would be a multitude of nations meant that there would be another supernatural birth coming from his line, and this person would instigate the promise.
The only way for Abraham to be a father of a multitude of nations (gentiles), is for it to be fulfilled spiritually. This happens when believers are born of the Spirit through faith in Christ. Christ being from Abraham's physical line according to the flesh.
And so the promise to Abraham on behalf of the gentiles is the Spirit of adoption. Christ would be the instigator of the promise, not the one in need of the promise, because Jesus was born the Son of God.
Let's continue......
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 ¶ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
So there you have it. Justification by faith leads to the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, as those who are justified are born of the Spirit and are now spiritually connected to Abraham through Christ.
Therefore Christ is the spiritual seed (singular) who would instigate the promise to Abraham to make him the father of many nations via spiritual birth. It's that simple.
STP needs to admit that he missed it.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Never heard that closer before.
Regardless, the fact that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST in the passage is irrefutable.
andyc
New member
The fact that in the KJV there is the "faith of the gospel", and the "faith of the operation of God" is irrefutable.
People still understand it as faith IN the gospel, and faith IN the operation of God.
You want to take advantage of the old english rendering for doctrinal purposes, because that is your agenda.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Regardless, the fact that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST in the passage is irrefutable.
He was the seed to whom the promise was made, and received it by faith. You can let your countenance be fallen all you want, and seek to rise up and slay me if you want, but it won't change that fact.
andyc
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It's been laid out for you scripturally. It's been shown to you in modern translations. You're in denial of spiritual sonship though faith in Christ.
Basically your interpretation is a disaster, and it shows how desperate people can be to grasp hold of a crazy theory in order to salvage a doctrine.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Regardless, the fact that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST in the passage is irrefutable.
He was the seed to whom the promise was made, and received it by faith. You can let your countenance be fallen all you want, and seek to rise up and slay me if you want, but it won't change that fact.
andyc
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SaulToPaul 2
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andyc
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Obviously the problem with STP's interpretation is that if Christ is the one receiving the promise of the Spirit through his own faith, it means that Jesus himself needed to be born again. He would have to believe in righteousness by faith, not works, in order to receive the Spirit to become a Son of God. Of course this is nonsense, as Jesus was born the Son of God.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Nope.
Christ is the seed to whom the promise was made, and he receive it by his faith.
Irrefutable.
You don't have to like it, but you will never change it.
andyc
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What was the promise made to Abraham?
journey
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Amen! - Good post. This sums things up nicely. I tried to give you a positive rep, but the system said I had to spread it around some first. Calvinism and MAD are actually opposites.
heir
TOL Subscriber
:up:
Listen up, Opie. Little kids learn through repetition. And, if there is one thing that I've learned, after years of surveying, studying, and meditating on this book, is that it is a book of details. A word, and, yes, words, do matter, as the Holy Spirit, is very meticulous in the words He employs, in contrast to you,who demonstrates lackadaisical disregard for the details of the "volume of the book."
As an example:
Romans 3:30 KJV
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Let me guess: It all says the same thin', Lucy, as "by faith"="through faith," as it all says/means the same thin'.
Go ahead, bray like a j, and keep "arguing" that-you can "prove" anythin you want, red Lucy. "Knock yourself out"(The "modern" 'the' English).
"You want to take advantage of the old english rendering for doctrinal purposes, because that is your agenda."-you
And you will rummage for any version/translation/source, a stack/"messa"("The "modern" English) bibles, that validate/agree with/support your "doctrine," what you are attempting to "prove." Your "doctrine" thus determines what the bible should say, or what it is. If it does not, then you find one that will, or correct any and all of "the bible"'s.
andyc
New member
Good guess.
Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Is that Johnny W's actual height?
No wonder they call him "Little Johnny W."
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