ECT Madists are closet Calvinists

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Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Tambora said:
And which one of those kingdoms was the one some of the elect were cast out of?
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Earthly national Israel was "elect" out of the nations to handle the ordinances of God and manifest His Holy Standards (Law) amidst all the ungodly nations.

This election was only a type of efficacious Election that is always salvific. Many temporal things are type of spiritual Truth.



I'm not a Calvinist either.
But I do believe in unconditional election.
It happened with Jacob/Israel.
He was chosen/elected unconditionally, without doing anything to merit being chosen/elected.
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Correct. Jacob was not saved just because he was a offspring of Abraham, but because He was spiritually Elect of God, according to spiritual promise made under covenant to his father, Abraham.

but it still shows that they were cast of the same kingdom they were once in. You can't be kicked out of a kingdom you were never in.


Sure does.
Those folks were not in kingdom, but then were.
Contrasting those that were in and then out.

And the ones in were always in danger of being out. And those out could come in, with the same danger of being out again.
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It is the same thing in the visible churches. Just because someone attends church and claims to be in the spiritual Kingdom of Heaven because they believe in Christ, can be faked. These will not inherit the heavenly Kingdom. See Matthew 7:21-23

It is contrary to the elect always remaining elect.
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You are confusing national "election" with saving, spiritual Election. The first was temporal and a type, of the eternal. Those truly chosen in Christ for redemption cannot lose their salvation. Those who attend church with them in this temporal world, but do not possess genuine faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, will be cast out on Judgment Day, just as God cast off unfaithful Israel as a whole.

Only a remnant has ever proven to be God's spiritual Elect; and these from all the nations. See Revelation 5:9, 7:9

Yep.
They were in the elect kingdom, but some were cast out of that same elect kingdom they were in.


And just how does any of that change the fact that those cast out of the kingdom were once in that same kingdom that they were cast out of?

Where they in the spiritual kingdom, and then cast out of that spiritual kingdom?
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No.


Or were they in the physical kingdom, and then cast out of that physical kingdom?
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Yes.


No matter which one you chose, they had to first be in that kingdom before they could be cast out of that kingdom.

So, which kingdom is it speaking of them being in and then out of? The spiritual kingdom or the physical?
Frankly, for all intent and purpose, it doesn't matter which you want it to be.
The fact still remains that they were cast out of the same kingdom they were once in. Because you cannot be cast out of a kingdom you are not already in.

So, if you chose for it to be the spiritual kingdom of God, then you still have the problem of them being once in that spiritual kingdom and then being out of that same spiritual kingdom.
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Only hypocrites and counterfeit Christians will be cast out from inheriting the spiritual Kingdom. Mingling with the true Elect in the temporal and visible churches does not make them spiritually in union with Christ.

They may appear to be the same kind of people, but God knows who are His children, and all His spiritual offspring are stamped with His Holy Spirit and guaranteed everlasting life and inheritance in His invisible heavenly Kingdom. See Hebrews 12:22-24
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Yes, and he grew and learned, and believed the scriptures concerning him...faith.
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You speak of Jesus developing from childhood, as the Son of Man. Even while He was fully Son of God. He was fully Man and fully God at all times, but He volitionally put aside His full heavenly glory, in order to become like His brethren in flesh. Read Hebrews 2:9-18
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Tambora said:
Or perhaps you are messing around with the doctrine of Christ's manhood.
For there were promises made concerning the flesh.
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Both are equally important, and I try very hard to be careful when such matters are discussed.

Failure to confess Christ's full Deity is the heresy of Arianism.

Failure to confess Christ's full Manhood is the heresy of Docetism.

It is good to study both heresies to avoid any spiritual pratfalls.
 
john w

john w

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Nang said:
Earthly national Israel was "elect" out of the nations to handle the ordinances of God and manifest His Holy Standards (Law) amidst all the ungodly nations.

This election was only a type of efficacious Election that is always salvific. Many temporal things are type of spiritual Truth.
Click to expand...
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Deception-eliminate the literal, as words mean NADA.



31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: 36 if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.




PigPen Naggie:Out with..."if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever," or there are no more "ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar," or "the church" is Israel, and a "nation."



You wicked Clavinist deceiver-stuff your "temporal" satanic spam.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
john w said:
You wicked Clavinist deceiver.
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You would do yourself a great service to lock yourself in a hotel room for a week with the wonderful works of the Reformation Fathers.

You might emerge less of a MAD wacko, and with more sophistication, and piety.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Who was the seed?
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Isaac.


Who was the promise made to?
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Abraham.

Why don't you think Christ believed the Word and acted accordingly (faith)?
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The Seed promised to Eve, who would crush the head (power) of Satan, was Jesus Christ, who issued forth from the seed of Isaac (Tribe of Judah), as promised to Abraham.

The spiritual seed of this Seed, are those all down through time, who have believed in God's covenant promises of the Savior.

Faith in these promises was gifted to an elect remnant during the O.T. and to an elect remnant in the N.T. This remnant (seeds) are in union with the Seed (Christ), thus the singular language.
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Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
john w said:
Deception-eliminate the literal, as words mean NADA.



31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: 36 if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.




PigPen Naggie:Out with..."if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever," or there are no more "ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar," or "the church" is Israel, and a "nation."



You wicked Clavinist deceiver-stuff your "temporal" satanic spam.
Click to expand...


The "House of Israel" are the spiritual remnant chosen to be redeemed IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:3-4

Israel as a nation proved to be spiritually adulterous and unfaithful, and God cast them away. As a nation, Israel was never part of the heavenly Kingdom.

Only a remnant chosen out of the nation of Israel, were gifted with faith to believe in the promises of the Seed; Messiah. Some of these are listed in Hebrews Chapter 11. And the list includes Abraham and his spiritual offspring; from which faithful lineage, Christ assumed flesh in the Office of Mediator between God and elect men. See Hebrews 11: 8-11; 17-21
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Nang said:
You speak of Jesus developing from childhood, as the Son of Man. Even while He was fully Son of God. He was fully Man and fully God at all times, but He volitionally put aside His full heavenly glory, in order to become like His brethren in flesh. Read Hebrews 2:9-18
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Yep.

A demon is being uncovered with what they're teaching here. They're basically saying that Jesus needed to believe for the Holy Spirit, which means they do not believe (understand really) that he was God according to his Spirit dwelling within human flesh.

So, in reality they don't believe that Jesus (as God) came in the flesh, but that he was totally human until he received the Spirit. This belief system came from a demon.
 
john w

john w

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Hall of Fame
SaulToPaul said:
You would do yourself a great service to lock yourself in a hotel room for a week with the wonderful works of the Reformation Fathers.

You might emerge less of a MAD wacko, and with more sophistication, and piety.
Click to expand...

Bah....Gag me with a spoon, Mr. Kotter.....Gnosticism.....Come to the New Covenant of Atonement.....

How did I do?
 
andyc

andyc

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Why do you contradict Galatians 3?


To thy seed, which is Christ

Till the seed should come to whom the promise was made (WAY after Abraham)
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The promise was to Abraham and Christ.
What was the promise to Abraham and Christ?

There won't be a response.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
andyc said:
So, in reality they don't believe that Jesus (as God) came in the flesh, but that he was totally human until he received the Spirit. This belief system came from a demon.
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Baloney.

Was Christ the seed to whom the promise was made?
Did he receive the promise of the Spirit?
How is the promise of the Spirit received?

You keep running, but the scripture won't allow you.
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Nang said:
You speak of Jesus developing from childhood, as the Son of Man. Even while He was fully Son of God. He was fully Man and fully God at all times, but He volitionally put aside His full heavenly glory, in order to become like His brethren in flesh. Read Hebrews 2:9-18
Click to expand...

He is a man right now, flesh and bones, not flesh and blood.
 
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