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Thread: ARCHIVE: Is it ever OK for a Christian to hate someone?

  1. #76
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasKage
    To cut to the meat of it, christians preach love thy neighbor, but, they are some of the first to resort to low blows. Make a point with out going for blood, it can be done.
    You make a valid point, you ****

    No, just kidding. You are right, a lot of people who profess Christianity demonstrate some really poor character traits. I've changed since I've been on TOL, but could probably stand to do even more. I'm not perfect. We all need work. None of us is finished, or we'd already be at The Big Supper Table in The Sky.
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    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    You make a valid point, you ****
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    They are all wrong - to some extent.

    Some are more wrong than others and can be shown so in objective ways.

    It's up to you to use your own brain and seek the truth.
    So, let me try and understand what your saying, all of the 33, 000, forms of christianity are wrong to some extent, some more so then others. Why not just have it so that every one gets the same message and understands everything about it?

    If god is god, and the holy spirit is god, then the holy spirit is capable of making the message perfect, or near perfect for us mortals. And if the second coming can only happen after the world is made gods foot stool, then wouldnt it stand to reason that god would just every one to get the same message and work together to make the world christian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    You make a valid point, you ****
    Why I... just kidding, but seriously folks.

  5. #80
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasKage
    So, let me try and understand what your saying, all of the 33, 000, forms of christianity are wrong to some extent, some more so then others. Why not just have it so that every one gets the same message and understands everything about it?

    If god is god, and the holy spirit is god, then the holy spirit is capable of making the message perfect, or near perfect for us mortals. And if the second coming can only happen after the world is made gods foot stool, then wouldnt it stand to reason that god would just every one to get the same message and work together to make the world christian?
    It isn't like the essentials of the message are presented in 33,000 different ways.

    Therefore your point is exaggerated and not accurate in this application.

    Likewise...
    There are millions of atheists and not a single two of them agree on everything therefore what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasKage
    So, let me try and understand what your saying, all of the 33, 000, forms of christianity are wrong to some extent, some more so then others. Why not just have it so that every one gets the same message and understands everything about it?
    Where's the fun in that? He loves diversity. That's why He made so many different forms of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasKage
    If god is god, and the holy spirit is god, then the holy spirit is capable of making the message perfect, or near perfect for us mortals. And if the second coming can only happen after the world is made gods foot stool, then wouldnt it stand to reason that god would just (want) every one to get the same message and work together to make the world christian?
    It is perfect, it is in our (mis) interpretation of It that the fault lies. If we understood the reason that He made His Word a Mystery, it wouldn't be a mystery anymore, would it? That will happen when time comes to an end:

    And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Over 1500 post club SOTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Hate (in and of itself) is morally neutral.

    There are righteous forms of hatred and there are unrighteous forms of hatred.

    Righteous hatred...
    Psalms 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

    Unrighteous hatred...
    Leviticus 19:17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.
    I agree with this. I used to fall into the "we have to love everyone camp" but this clearly is not Biblical. Yes, we can righteously hate somebody with perfect hatred. Terrorists come to mind.

  8. #83
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOTK
    Yes, we can righteously hate somebody with perfect hatred. Terrorists come to mind.
    BINGO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Love and hate are not equal opposites.

    You should love your enemy enough to hate him. Then and only then might he repent.
    the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

    Romans 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
    There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan.

    C.S. Lewis

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by God_Is_Truth
    the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

    Romans 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
    What wacky translation are you using?

    Clearly you are misreading the context....

    Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

    The verse is stating that God's goodness is what points men towards what is right and what is wrong. This verse has nothing to do with God acting "kind" towards wicked sinners.
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    GIT do yourself a favor and go buy a NKJV or KJV of God's word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    What wacky translation are you using?
    New American Standard Bibe (NASB). nothing "wacky" about it.

    Clearly you are misreading the context....

    Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

    The verse is stating that God's goodness is what points men towards what is right and what is wrong. This verse has nothing to do with God acting "kind" towards wicked sinners.
    nothing you've said here from the context gives me any reason to think it should be translated as "goodness" and not "kindness". the KJV and NKJV are not my favorite translations nor do i believe they are the most accurate. i find the NASB more credible, more literal and thus a better translation.
    There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan.

    C.S. Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    It isn't like the essentials of the message are presented in 33,000 different ways.

    Therefore your point is exaggerated and not accurate in this application.

    Likewise...
    There are millions of atheists and not a single two of them agree on everything therefore what?
    I'm not sure I agree with you on this but hey, I could be wrong, its a great big world, on the same coin, you might be wrong as well, who knows for sure.

    As to your point of the athiests, your right, we dont all agree, but then again, we arent trying to convert the world.

    Lets play war for a second Knight, personaly, I'm a stratagist, I love it, the days of Napolionic war, the battles fought in the War for Southern Independance, I love stratagies. I cant get enough of it.

    You have your army, christianity, I have my force, athiesm. Now, the way christianity is now, fractioned and devided, they stand as christians yes, but discount very large groups of christians because their dogma is slightly different. JVW's, Mormans, Unitarians, the list goes on. Now I have my force, the athiests, all we have to agree on is that your wrong, no dogma, no deep theology, just that your wrong. While athiests my not agree on everything, we do agree that your wrong, we stand as a closer nit group, a tighter unit. And on the same token christians for the most part do stand united, but, can you really get a catholic and a protestant to sit down and discuss theology with out it going to yelling? Or a calvinist and an Arminian.

    See my point, athiests dont need to agree on every thing, just that your wrong. Hope that I made that clear enough, if not let me know, I'll work on it some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    GIT do yourself a favor and go buy a NKJV or KJV of God's word.
    Those are my favorite! It's weird but most at my church use the NIV. I wonder why? It's an "okay" translation but the NKJV seems more accurate to me.

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    Cool To Hate or not to Hate - That is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by God_Is_Truth
    the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

    Romans 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
    See Jude 20 - 23. (NKJV is what I use) There are different ways to reach people for Christ.
    Psalms 58:10
    The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

    CONFESSION OF AN EX-ABORTIONIST

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