ECT Madists are closet Calvinists

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tetelestai

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If faith is a gift, then both the Father and the Son are unjust judges and lying hypocrites for condemning those who never place their faith in Christ.

(Rom 9:14-15) What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
 

Cross Reference

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The tiny prep. "IF" is used over 7000 times in the KJV Bible. 3000 + in the NT alone. Madist', Calvinist' and the like seem to have taken to themselves, by preferring them, translations of the Bible that have omitted the one's that present a problem for them. Here is an example of just one passage, BY PAUL, none of you have had the guts to reply to, having been repeatedly asked to do so:

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" Colossians 1:21-23 (KJV)

In addition, for the MAD minds, kindly read what follows in yellow. Note that it was preached to every creature and He was [only] a minister of it.. Every creature under heaven??? How could that have been by Paul alone?? Answer: It couldn't have been by Paul alone.

[emphasis mine]

That should flush your toilet if you will be honest with yourselves. But I have no hope for that in me simply because of the times we live in Jesus spoke of in His warnings to His disciples.
 

andyc

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No shifting the goal post. You asked about getting saved, not what happens after a person is saved.

Does the answer Gros and I provided satisfy you?

It's a discussion, not an interrogation.
You don't have have to respond to anything if you don't want to.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
If people are saved by, and live by the faith of Christ, the ability to believe was gifted.
False premises lead to false conclusions and your OP is no exception. Faith is not the gift, grace is and it's through the faith of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

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False premises lead to false conclusions and your OP is no exception. Faith is not the gift, grace is and it's through the faith of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is the "conditional" gift to those God favors who, by their faith, please Him.
 

andyc

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False premises lead to false conclusions and your OP is no exception. Faith is not the gift, grace is and it's through the faith of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So you're saved by God's grace, and through God's faith.
None of it was of yourself?

How can this not be irresistible grace?
 

Cross Reference

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A gift is not conditional. It is either received or rejected.



Where did you get that idea? It certainly isn't in the scriptures? You must be referring to redemption, something God did for man irrespective of his relationship to God, but even then, for it to made effective, man can only benefit by placing his faith in how it was accomplished..To me, that is not arguable.
 

Tambora

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As Paul explained, not all who are of Israel (elect according to the flesh) are Israel (believers). It wasn't the hearers of the law who were justified, but the doers. They may have been physically uncircumcised, but their hearts were uncircumcised.
So although they may have been God's elect nation physically, individually and spiritually the requirement is faith.
They were born elect.
They were cast out of the kingdom.
That means that some of the elect do not remain in the kingdom.

No matter how you look at it, some that were in the kingdom were cast out of the kingdom.

IN --- OUT
 

andyc

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What part of "and that not of yourselves" don't you understand?

You don't have to receive the gift. You can reject it.

How can you reject what you've never received?
If you are the one doing the believing, it's through your faith not God's.
 

andyc

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They were born elect.
They were cast out of the kingdom.
That means that some of the elect do not remain in the kingdom.

No matter how you look at it, some that were in the kingdom were cast out of the kingdom.

IN --- OUT

Two different kingdoms.
Israel - which they inherited through natual birth.
Heaven - which is inherited through spiritual birth.
 

Cross Reference

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False premises lead to false conclusions and your OP is no exception. Faith is not the gift, grace is and it's through the faith of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Why don't you reply to post #123??? __ <chicken>.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Basically same as Gros: grace and salvation are the gift.

If faith is a gift, then both the Father and the Son are unjust judges and lying hypocrites for condemning those who never place their faith in Christ. If they never believe Him, that is 100% proof (following Calvinistic reasoning) that they were never elected to receive the alleged gift of faith...else they'd invariably exercise it sooner or later because they're predestined to (irresistible grace).

So His damning them for not doing what only He could enable - but obviously didn't - makes Him a liar and not the God of Scripture.

Any fence sitters beginning to see what a blasphemous logical sinkhole Calvinism is?

Good post! Calvinism is another word for; "Spiritual Blindness!"
 
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