Aimiel
Well-known member
Amen.
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
God's Truth
New member
Amen.
Letsargue
New member
The hebrew doesn't Thy throne, O god. It says thy throne, a god or thy throne, the god. Take your pick, and there is not standard vocative in hebrew to save you. The nouns aren't vocative, or don't give an direction to being a state of address.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Your sentence structuring capability is only underwhelmed by your understanding of Truth.
Letsargue
New member
SO You Say, for Your own reason, of not believing God The Truth / Christ, the Word of God!!!!
Paul
Aimiel
Well-known member
No, actually I say it because it's true. You cannot render a reason that you believe or disbelieve anyone on TOL, you simply disagree with Truth when presented to you and make no sense while trying to do so, because of your inability to understand Truth or even to express yourself clearly using English, your ONLY language. Certainly if you thought just a bit more you might express your thoughts better and perhaps even begin to see the logic behind those who've never engaged with you before due to your ill-prepared posts and sloppy wording. We believe Scripture, but we don't subscribe to your 'holier-than-thou' attitude, which is a smoke in God's nostrils all day long. Please take just a bit more time arranging your thoughts and putting words on your screen from now on... you'll be glad you did and so will others. :thumb:
xfrodobagginsx
Active member
Jesus Christ IS God
There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things.
Jesus’s name “Immanuel” LITERALLY means “God with us”
Mt 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
He always existed (from everlasting):
Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."
This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.
Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
I am IS God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.
Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows “All things” (Only God knows all things)
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.
In Him Dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead Bodily:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: {his...: Gr. the Son of his love}
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. {in...: or, among all} 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
God's plurality is found in Genesis
Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:
Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let “US” make man in “OUR” image. He didn’t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.
His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:
Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}
Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Scripture refers to Him as the Lord, Jesus Christ. The phrase "The Lord" is unique only to God:
Here are a few mentioning "The Lord Your God"
De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}
De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Here are many calling Him Jesus Christ, The Lord.
Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
2Co 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. <<The second [epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.]>>
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {conversation...: or, we live or conduct ourselves as citizens of heaven, or, for obtaining heaven}
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
There are many more, but I don't think I need to continue.
Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us.
There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things.
Jesus’s name “Immanuel” LITERALLY means “God with us”
Mt 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
He always existed (from everlasting):
Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."
This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.
Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
I am IS God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.
Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows “All things” (Only God knows all things)
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.
In Him Dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead Bodily:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: {his...: Gr. the Son of his love}
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. {in...: or, among all} 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
God's plurality is found in Genesis
Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:
Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let “US” make man in “OUR” image. He didn’t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.
His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:
Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}
Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Scripture refers to Him as the Lord, Jesus Christ. The phrase "The Lord" is unique only to God:
Here are a few mentioning "The Lord Your God"
De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}
De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Here are many calling Him Jesus Christ, The Lord.
Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
2Co 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. <<The second [epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.]>>
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {conversation...: or, we live or conduct ourselves as citizens of heaven, or, for obtaining heaven}
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
There are many more, but I don't think I need to continue.
Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us.
Elia
Well-known member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
There is only ONE true God who is ONE, and His name is J-H-W-H.
Besides Him there is no God. So every other god is a false god.
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
"You saw no form of any kind the day Y-H-W-H spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things Y-H-W-H your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."
Deut 4:15-19
Letsargue
New member
Because it True?? -- (( SHOW ME!!! ))!! - Prove it's True!!
I have shown you all Scriptures that Absolutely Proves You ALL Wrong, And it just does not matter what God says; you don't care, and say nothing but Stuff that doesn't mean anything of God, like right NOW!!!
All Scriptures have been Fulfilled. - I showed you that God says they Have!! AND Romans 3:10-13 KJV, - Says there are "No Christians", No not ONE!!!
The "ONE" greatest worry of any Christian!!! - IS, - "IS It - "Possible" - that I may be wrong"?? -- I cannot see anything such as that in ANY of You all at ALL!! - None of you have ANY concern that you could be wrong - Maybe, at all!!
"Take Heed unto thyself and the Doctrine". -- None of you care if your wrong. - I ask you all, all the Time, "Prove me wrong"!! - You only spit and call me names and say how stupid I am, and Hide if you can't respond at all!!
Like right Now, You are doing Nothing but Lying about the Things I've said and shown you!!
I don't give a HOOT any longer that you're Lost, you don't care!!! - I've tried to show that you are LOST, but NOTHING Means anything to you; - BUT Your own self Nothing of God, but YOU!!!
Paul
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
There is only ONE God who is ONE, and His name is J-H-W-H
Isaiah 7 has nothing to do with the messiah and nothing to do with a virgin:
The prophecy of Isaiah 7:
1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."
We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of two neighboring kings.
It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman is pregnant and is giving birth to a son, and she called his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."
God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.
And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.
We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.
And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.
So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.
So God gave a sign to Achaz.
In the days of Achaz.
About 700 years before JC.
So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.
These are only misconceptions of the NT.
However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".
So what the NT does here, is taking a text which does not speak about the messiah, ripping it out of context, mistranslating it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then presenting it to us as a messianic prophecy.
So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.
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Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Micah 5:2
New American Standard Bible "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
Holman Christian Standard Bible " Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity.
New Life Version "His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning."
Darby Translation "whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity."
American Standard Version "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."
All versions of the King James: "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
Amplified Bible "Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).
All the above translation say the origins of the messiah are from "everlasting" or from "eternity", hereby implying that the messiah is God.
The Hebrew words here translated with "from everlasting" or "days of eternity" are "jamei olaam", which means literally "ancient days".
Many Bible translations translate it like that, only the above hold on to "days of eternity", or something with the same implications, because they want to push the wrong Christian idea that the messiah is God himself.
However, also the above translations know how to correctly translate the words "jamei olaam". We see that for instance in Micah 7:14, were the same expression "jamei olaam" is used. See here how the above translate it there:
Holman Christian Standard Bible " Let them graze in Bashan and Gilead as in ancient times."
New Life Version "Let them eat in Bashan and Gilead as in days long ago."
Darby Translation "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. "
American Standard Version "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."
King James: "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."
New American Standard Bible "Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead As in the days of old."
Amplified Bible "they shall feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."
Another place where the expression "jamei olaam" is used, is in Isaiah 63:11
Holman Christian Standard Bible " Then He remembered the days of the past, [the days] of Moses [and] his people."
New Life Version "Then His people remembered the days long ago, the days of Moses."
Darby Translation "But he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people:"
American Standard Version "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people,"
King James: "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people,"
New American Standard Bible "Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses"
Amplified Bible "Then His people [seriously] remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people"
Another place where the expression "jamei olaam" is used is Amos 9:11
Holman Christian Standard Bible "In that day I will restore the fallen booth of David: I will repair its gaps,
restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old,"
New Life Version "In that day I will build again the tent of David that fell down. Yes, I will build it again from the stones that fell down. I will set it up again as it used to be."
Darby Translation "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"
American Standard Version "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;"
King James: "and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"
Amplified Bible "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old,"
New American Standard Bible "I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;"
Another place where the expression "jamei olaam" is used is in Malachi 3:4
Holman Christian Standard Bible "And the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD as in days of old and years gone by"
New Life Version "Then the gifts of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord, as they were in the past."
Darby Translation "Then shall the oblation of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in former years."
American Standard Version "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. "
King James: "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years."
Amplified Bible "hen will the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in ancient years."
New American Standard Bible ""Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years."
It should be clear by now for everybody that the expression "jamei olaam" has no bearing on "days of eternity" whatsoever.
It is always translated correct, except there where Christianity wants to push it's dogma of a divine messiah. There the translations are corrupted in order to squeeze in the messiah of the Christians.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
And what about 1 John 5:7? "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
Well, this looks like a great text to proof a trinity, except for the fact that this is a falsification of your Bible. In the original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament this verse doesn't exist.
This text is later added to you Bible, in a desperate attempt to proof a trinity which cannot be proven.
The NT has come to us in bits and pieces. A Gospel from here, the letters of Paul from there... The first ones who compiled of this a reliable text of the NT where Westcott and Hort who did so in 1881.
In that Greek text of the NT is written in 1 John 5:7; "For there are three that testify"
That's all.
Followed by verse 8: "the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one."
The whole part about the Father, the word and the holy spirit, and that those are one, doesn't exist in the original Greek text.
Nowadays the Greek text of dr Eberhard Nestle is the most reliable text of the NT, and in 1 John 5:7+8 it is exactly the same as the text of Westcott and Hort.
You don't have to take my word for it, just ask your pastor or reverend, and he'll confirm these facts.
About 30,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament have been found.
Of those thousands manuscripts that trinity formula is to be found in only four (4) manuscripts, and not one of those four goes back any further than the sixteenth century.
Therefore all Bible scholars agree that it is a 16th century falsification. Some say it was a note in the margin which ended up in the text.
Therefore all modern Bible translations leave out that part that doesn't belong in your Bible. Some translations put it between brackets, and some old ones like the KJV still have it in the text.
Old translations like the KJV are based on the so called "Textus Receptus", and that is based on relatively young and unreliable manuscripts.
The textus receptus of the Greek NT is compiled by Erasmus, and published in 1516.
The interesting part is that the first edition of the Textus Receptus didn't have that trinity formula in 1 John 5:7. When the church asked him why he didn't put in the Comma Johanneum, he answered: "I have never in my life seen a Greek manuscript which contains it."
Then the church showed him one, (the ink probably still wet on it) and in the following editions the comma was included.
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textus_Receptus
"Erasmus had been studying Greek New Testament manuscripts for many years, in the Netherlands, France, England and Switzerland, noting their many variants, but had only six Greek manuscripts immediately accessible to him in Basel.[5] They all dated from the 12th Century or later, and only one came from outside the mainstream Byzantine tradition. Consequently, most modern scholars consider his text to be of dubious quality.[7]
With the third edition of Erasmus' Greek text (1522) the Comma Johanneum was included, because "Erasmus chose to avoid any occasion for slander rather than persisting in philological accuracy", even though he remained "convinced that it did not belong to the original text of l John."[8]
There is no such thing as a trinity, not in the Old Testament and not in the New Testament.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
God is ONE. And not three.
שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.
And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9
The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.
Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.
Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.
Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.
Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.
But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?
Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.
Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?
But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".
BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."
But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".
No trinity.
Another example of a pronoun:
Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”
As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.
Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.
So no three persons in God.
Another one:
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.”
No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.
Another one:
Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”
Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.
I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.
And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Be adviced that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: J-H-W-H.
So what the above verses are really saying is this:
De 5:6 I am J-H-W-H thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}
De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I J-H-W-H thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of J-H-W-H thy God in vain: for J-H-W-H will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as J-H-W-H thy God hath commanded thee.
So that has nothing to do with the Christian messiah. It speaks about the one and only true God who is one: J-H-W-H.
Here we see again how much confusion and wrong teachings the Christian Bible translations are causing by obscuring the name of the one and only true God.
The Bible teaches that God is ONE, and therefore not three.
So God is His own son, and at the same time His own father??
So God is subjected to Himself and subjected to Himself??
Cruciform
New member
Incorrect. Rather, the Bible teaches that God is ONE in one thing (Being), and THREE in another thing (Nature).
Wrong again, the bible says he is not a one-doer, not a three-doer.
God's Truth
New member
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.