Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace !

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace !

1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Folks, the natural man is anyone who never been born again ! Why the natural man is so opposed to the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Now, even though it be holtly denied and debated, the scripture is very clear that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, which things the Gospel is 1 Cor 2:14.

We know that this includes the Gospel, the Things of Christ because its said the things of the Spirit of God, to the natural man is FOOLISHNESS, its the greek word mória and means:

folly, absurdity, foolishness,silliness,

Now the same greek word is decribed to describe how some believe about the Preaching of the Cross, which is the Gospel of God's Grace still 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

All by nature are lost and perishing ! That same word perish is translated lost here 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Thats all men by nature ! Even the prodigal son was Lost Lk 15:24,32

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Again, while Lost,in a state of alienation from God, we are naturally, and the scripture says that the Preaching of the Cross to us while in that state, the message is foolishness, because 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Folks, the Bible teaches that the carnal mind, the mind we all have by nature it is writes Paul Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

These three things are True of every man born of a women naturally. Our mind is enmity against God, the True God that scripture reveals, secondly, the carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God [which includes the Gospel Commands] and thirdly, it does not have the ability to obey God spiritually in any degree or capacity ! We by nature are opposed to God and His Gospel, for it is the also the Gospel of God Rom 1:1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 2

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 2

Now the Gospel of God's Grace proclaims that a man is Justified solely by God's Grace through the death of Christ, which is Redemption Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Freely denotes without conditions !

This means that all men that Christ has died for 1 Cor 15:3, or tasted death for Heb 2:9 are freely accepted of God, apart from anything they did, and condition they had to do, and men by nature can not accept that some people are 100% accepted by God,Justified before Him, without doing something of themselves for it, if that doing is but believing, accepting, or maybe repenting, it must be something man must do ! Man naturally cannot conceive of having forgiveness of sins granted one solely by God's Grace without any other cause from man ! Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Its in Christ that these things be True of all for whom He died, not anything from within themselves contributed ! This whole Truth is enmity with and opposed by the natural man ! And Yet its a Gospel of Grace Doctrine !

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 3

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 3

Next, we men by nature, naturally think [See Prov 14:12] that if we do at least something, an act of obedience of some sort, do it in sincerity, that God will out of mercy accept of it, and upon that gound accept us, save us, justify us. This thinking springs from our self love of ourselves 2 Tim 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

and men refuse to accept God's indictment upon the natural man in the flesh, in nature, some of which is recored here Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

In those 3 verses, hw many times do we see the word NONE ?

But we think as cain did in the beginning, he sought acceptance with God in doing well, and God gave him over to that wicked way of thinking, knowing that man cannot do well, for Adam proved it, but God says to cain Gen 4:3-7

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

No doubt cain thought he done well here Vs 3

Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

But God refused him and his offering !

You see, God has accepted them only that He chose in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Abel was accepted in the beloved, which would have been the coming seed of the women Gen 3:15 !

But man by nature, as did cain, will always attempt in their doings for God to find a reason within them to be accepted by Him, and so the Preaching of the total depravity of man, in order to shine the Light brighter on God's Grace, as to how man is accepted with God, this truth of depravity is not received by the natural man !

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 4

Naturally we are opposed to the Gospel of Grace ! 4

Also men by nature, closely related to my previous point, men do not think that God will condemn them to hell for being sincere in religion, and doing the best they can in good works, but lets read of those who are of such a disposition Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A large part of their works of iniquity are recorded in Vs 22 such as Prophesying or Preaching in His Name, casting out devils, and many wonderful works.

Jesus here is Identifying as workers of Iniquity, those who have been seriously religious. By nature we believe the workers of iniquity would be dope attacks, hookers, drunkards, fornicators and those types, and they are the ones worthy of hell, but here we see its the religious folks that have been fitting themselves for destruction as Vessels of Wrath !

beloved57 said:

You see, God has accepted them only that He chose in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Abel was accepted in the beloved, which would have been the coming seed of the women Gen 3:15 !

But man by nature, as did cain, will always attempt in their doings for God to find a reason within them to be accepted by Him, and so the Preaching of the total depravity of man, in order to shine the Light brighter on God's Grace, as to how man is accepted with God, this truth of depravity is not received by the natural man !

Click to expand...

The Gospel of God's Grace is not palatable to those in the world's religions.
For they're under a false notion that God must offer His Salvation to all people
for Him to be a Just and Loving God. So men prefer to have confidence in
their own flesh, some good action they can perform of themselves: a decision
they can make of their own freewill to earn God's acceptance.

In the final analysis though, only those who were originally created in Adam,
in the image and likeness of God, are the ones chosen and predestined before
the foundation of the world that God promised Salvation to Is. 45:17 KJV.

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the world began

Also men by nature, closely related to my previous point, men do not think that God will condemn them to hell for being sincere in religion, and doing the best they can in good works, but lets read of those who are of such a disposition Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A large part of their works of iniquity are recorded in Vs 22 such as Prophesying or Preaching in His Name, casting out devils, and many wonderful works.

Jesus here is Identifying as workers of Iniquity, those who have been seriously religious. By nature we believe the workers of iniquity would be dope attacks, hookers, drunkards, fornicators and those types, and they are the ones worthy of hell, but here we see its the religious folks that have been fitting themselves for destruction as Vessels of Wrath !

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Exactly!

~~~~~

Nanja said:

The Gospel of God's Grace is not palatable to those in the world's religions.
For they're under a false notion that God must offer His Salvation to all people
for Him to be a Just and Loving God. So men prefer to have confidence in
their own flesh, some good action they can perform of themselves: a decision
they can make of their own freewill to earn God's acceptance.

In the final analysis though, only those who were originally created in Adam,
in the image and likeness of God, are the ones chosen and predestined before
the foundation of the world that God promised Salvation to Is. 45:17 KJV.

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the world began

~~~~~

Click to expand...

You have spoken words of wisdom !

Posted from the TOL App!

beloved57 said:

You have spoken words of wisdom !

Posted from the TOL App!

Click to expand...

We can be assured that any wisdom we can speak in Truth
is only attributable to His Spirit's Power working in us !

~~~~~

Nanja said:

We can be assured that any wisdom we can speak in Truth
is only attributable to His Spirit's Power working in us !

~~~~~

Click to expand...

Sure you right !

Posted from the TOL App!

Christ came to save sinners, not make it possible !

Christ came to save sinners, not make it possible !

1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

False antichrist religions tell us that Christ came to make Salvation possible for anyone who believes ! Thats a false statement, not supported by the scriptures ! Now Christ came to save sinners, and all of them shall come to believe on Him for and because of Salvation. For Christ was Lifted up for that very purpose, to make believers in Himself, it is written Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

That drawing is Salvation, its the power of God via the Cross ! Its how His Bride, the Church comes to Him, as it is written in Song of Solomon 1:4

Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.

Here the condition that results in running after Christ, is He drawing them.

The fact of the matter is this, If those Christ died for dont come to believe on Him, beging to live by Faith, His Main Purpose for His death has been defeated ! For He was lifted up for that purpose; for its just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wildreness, so those who are stung, may look to the serpent and live. This is what God does by the Law to those Christ died for, He stings them with it, chastens them, causing them to Look to Christ. His chateneing does wound them so He can make them whole Job 5:17-18

17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.


And by this the Law plays a schoolmaster to lead them to Faith in Christ Gal 3:24

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Yes, that was the purpose of the fiery serpents [a figure of the fiery law Deut 33:2]

God by it stings them causing the stung to Look to Christ for Life, So Christ was Lifted up upon the Cross so that the stung and chatened of the Lord should look and live ! Remember the Hebrew writer says the same Heb 12:6-9

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Just as the end result of the lifting up of the serpent was to live Numbers 21:8

And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

So Christ was lifted up so that those stung by the Law can believe and Live Jn 3:14-15

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Every last single Person Christ was lifted up for, shall be stung and believe and be saved !

Righteousness, The fruit of Christ's death !

Righteousness, The fruit of Christ's death !

Righteousness Imputed is the result/fruit of Christ dying for our sins, for it is written Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one[His Death] shall many be made righteous.

Now if indeed He died for us, the consequences of that is to declare us Righteous, yet it must be emphasized that His death was not for all mankind without exception; But hallelujah if He indeed did, for then the fruit of that is Righteousness charged or imputed to us, so it says in 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Thats the exchange ! If God made Him to be sin for us, the fruit, effect is that we be made the Righteousness of God in Him, its a done deal, a finished transaction, for all whom He died, He tasted death for Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The every man here , they are all made the Righteousness of God in Him that tasted death for them, no exceptions !

We are Righteous because all of our sins, that seperated us from God Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

They which declared us Guilty, God charged them to Him Isa 53:5-6

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Therefore we are Righteous because iniquity cannot be charged to us Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

God by Imputation reckoned Christ to be the sinner we were, hence He was reckoned as a Transgressor Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

That word numbered manah means:

I.to count, reckon, number, assign, tell, appoint, prepare
A.
(Qal)
i.
to count, number

ii.
reckon, assign, appoint


B.
(Niphal)
i.
to be counted, be numbered

ii.
to be reckoned, be assigned


C.
(Piel) to appoint, ordain

D.
(Pual) appointed (participle)

Its actually the same word meaning as impute, the greek word logizomai :

I.to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
A.
to take into account, to make an account of
i.
metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute

ii.
a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight


B.
to number among, reckon with

C.
to reckon or account

So Christ for us was in the Mind of God by Imputation was counted as a Transgressor, who would suffer the Divine Vengeance of our sins for being so, and not for His Own Transgressions ! So being not able to Charge them with sin, they are Made Righteous ! They are made Righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)

Thats the Truth actually of Rom 4:25

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Or He was raised again because as a result of His death for us, He was for us Vindicated and hence so are we !

Paul means Individuals !

Paul means Individuals !

In Rom 9:10-24

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

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Many in false religion today, who reject the Authority of God's Word, they attempt to circumvent this important passage by claiming that the rejection and reprobation of some being taught here, as well as Election of some, that its not focused on individuals, but on nations, which is absurd, and anyway what are nations but a collection/aggregation of individuals ?

The passage is addressing individual Salvation, and the persons whom God Loves, and whom He hates [deny Salvation], whom He created as either a Vessel of Mercy or of Wrath, as it seemed good in His sight !

Now first of all, in making this sacred point, Paul points out the INDIVIDUAL ISAAC Vs 10

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

Then he mentions the Twins, two INDIVIDUALS:

Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated

Then we find in making his point, he uses singular pronouns as in Vs 16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The object is a him, a individual person ! Not a they or them. Then in Vs 17 Pharoah is an INDIVIDUAL :

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh[an individual], Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up [as an individual], that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Pharoah the invidiual is the he in Vs 20 :

Nay but, O man, who art thou [singualr individual] that repliest against God? Shall the thing[individual] formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me[Individual] thus?

O man indicates an Individual, and Vs 21 is explicit to that meaning:

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another [one] unto dishonour?

God has the right to make one person unto Honor, meaning Heaven See Rom 2:7 and another individual to dishonor or wrath ! The word dishonor is the greek word atimia and means:

I.dishonour, ignominy, disgrace

What Paul means is this Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Shame and contempt are synonyms for dishonor ! And the shame and contempt are the opposite to Everlasting Life !

So this Passage Rom 9:10-24 is proof that Paul had individuals in Mind, as well as its True that some individuals by the predetermined will of God, that He made some for the Glory of Heaven and some for the contempt and shame and dishonor of hell !

Jesus is the way to God, not mans freewill !

Jesus is the way to God, not mans freewill !

Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus says that He is the way to God the Father, that we must come by Him !

Its the same Truth of Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

In both scriptures you have the same Two words " come by " Him, or because of Him, meaning He is the first cause why them that Come to God do come to Him !

But false religion, arminianism, freewillism, pateism and allother isms teach that mans freewill will choice or decision is the way to God, that some type of obedience of theirs is the cause, or their own righteousness is the way to God as did these arrogant jews Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

By the way, this is all mens sin by nature , we all are " going about to establish our own righteousness"

Not to say that ethnic jews are more ignorant and self righteous than other people, for they are not, but neither are they anymore wiser or closer to God because of their ethnicity, for an pure blood jewish descendant has as much worth before God as does as an africian deep in the congo woods !

Coming to God is solely based upon Christ, and that by Election, being Chosen in Him before the foundation, thats the foundation of how and why He is the sole way to God !

Christ alone should get all the Credit !

Christ alone should get all the Credit !

If we are blessed too be of them that come to God in Repentance as Per Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If we indeed do obey and repent at the Command, then Christ must have all the Credit/Honor for it !

Because we read in Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Notice : "that come unto God by him" Not by their freewill, the word by here is the prep dia which denotes the cause why they come to God !

So if we do repent towards God in the matter of Salvation, being saved, He gets all the Honor for it, ALONE !

Grace and works [what man does] cannot mix !

Grace and works [what man does] cannot mix !

Its amazing how many claim to be saved by Grace, and claim to believe in Salvation by Grace, but yet deny the discriminating property of it ! You see Salvation by Grace is to say that Salvation is so freely given, that it could not have been given as a debt owed, but that is exactly what men do to Grace when they deny its discriminating property, in that it is given only to some of mankind, that God, from reasons within Himself, Hath Chosen discriminately men and women for Grace, and withholding it to from the rest, as to say Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[of Grace] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Once we say that this is unfair of God to choose with discrimination whom He will, to be recipients and experimentally partakers of His Redeeming Mercy and Grace, then we are blatantly saying that God's Grace and Mercy is a debt to be paid, because we feel that it is due equally to all without exception, and since God gives it to some, it should be given to all. This line of reasoning goes against the solemn declaration here Rom 9:13-15

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

man believes that if God operates that way with His creatures that makes God unrighteous, unfair, unjust !

Now once that line of reasoning begins, it destroys the true biblical concept of Grace and makes it a debt due, contrary to scriptures like Rom 4:4

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 11:6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

See, once for any reason we say its due us, it by default comes under works which equates to a debt owed !

If Grace is given upon knowledge of knowing who shall receive it when offered and who shall reject it when offered, then that makes Grace and or Mercy dependent upon our works or our willing or running, which again flat out contradicts scripture here Rom 9:16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy[discriminately].

That also means that God gave us Grace based upon a good behavior He saw within us, which then destroys the True concept of biblical Grace, because then it cannot be said that we were freely Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

That word freely means undeservedly, or without a cause, but that is not true if God took into account our behavior as the cause of partaking of His Grace or Mercy in Salvation while others with not the same willing behaviour as ours did not , and so the cause would have been in us !

Therefore Grace and Works [what man does] cannot mix !

beloved57 said:

Its amazing how many claim to be saved by Grace, and claim to believe in Salvation by Grace, but yet deny the discriminating property of it ! You see Salvation by Grace is to say that Salvation is so freely given, that it could not have been given as a debt owed, but that is exactly what men do to Grace when they deny its discriminating property, in that it is given only to some of mankind, that God, from reasons within Himself, Hath Chosen discriminately men and women for Grace, and withholding it to from the rest, as to say Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[of Grace] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Once we say that this is unfair of God to choose with discrimination whom He will, to be recipients and experimentally partakers of His Redeeming Mercy and Grace, then we are blatantly saying that God's Grace and Mercy is a debt to be paid, because we feel that it is due equally to all without exception, and since God gives it to some, it should be given to all. This line of reasoning goes against the solemn declaration here Rom 9:13-15

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

man believes that if God operates that way with His creatures that makes God unrighteous, unfair, unjust !

Now once that line of reasoning begins, it destroys the true biblical concept of Grace and makes it a debt due, contrary to scriptures like Rom 4:4

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 11:6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

See, once for any reason we say its due us, it by default comes under works which equates to a debt owed !

If Grace is given upon knowledge of knowing who shall receive it when offered and who shall reject it when offered, then that makes Grace and or Mercy dependent upon our works or our willing or running, which again flat out contradicts scripture here Rom 9:16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy[discriminately].

That also means that God gave us Grace based upon a good behavior He saw within us, which then destroys the True concept of biblical Grace, because then it cannot be said that we were freely Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

That word freely means undeservedly, or without a cause, but that is not true if God took into account our behavior as the cause of partaking of His Grace or Mercy in Salvation while others with not the same willing behaviour as ours did not , and so the cause would have been in us !

Therefore Grace and Works [what man does] cannot mix !

Click to expand...

Amen!

Salvation by Grace is discriminate to the small number of those chosen in Christ
before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love:
the ones who were predestinated to become His adopted children Eph. 1:4-5.

However, it is not available to all the rest which are, in scripture, referred to as reprobates / castaways
Titus 1:16 KJV; the seed of the serpent / seed of the wicked / tares John 8:44; Psalm 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38;
those of perdition/ vessels of wrath 2 Peter 3:7; Rom. 9:22; those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4.
For these wicked, it was God Purpose to create them that way, for He never loved them!

So, as can be clearly seen, Salvation by Grace has nothing to do with a man's choosing it by his freewill,
or any other work of the flesh he may do. But strictly because God discriminately elected certain individuals
to be partakers of His Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24; and not by any
conditions they can meet, or any performance on their part.

~~~~~

Nanja said:

Amen!

Salvation by Grace is discriminate to the small number of those chosen in Christ
before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love:
the ones who were predestinated to become His adopted children Eph. 1:4-5.

However, it is not available to all the rest which are, in scripture, referred to as reprobates / castaways
Titus 1:16 KJV; the seed of the serpent / seed of the wicked / tares John 8:44; Psalm 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38;
those of perdition/ vessels of wrath 2 Peter 3:7; Rom. 9:22; those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4.
For these wicked, it was God Purpose to create them that way, for He never loved them!

So, as can be clearly seen, Salvation by Grace has nothing to do with a man's choosing it by his freewill,
or any other work of the flesh he may do. But strictly because God discriminately elected certain individuals
to be partakers of His Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24; and not by any
conditions they can meet, or any performance on their part.

~~~~~

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Amen. Also did you get that whenever we say that God is unfair in only giving Grace to some, that in essence we are saying that God owes out His Grace, and makes it a matter of debt ?

beloved57 said:

Amen. Also did you get that whenever we say that God is unfair in only giving Grace to some, that in essence we are saying that God owes out His Grace, and makes it a matter of debt ?

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Yes, but If they proclaim His Grace is due them, then it is no more Grace!

God has decided who will receive His Grace. He is indebted to no man!
With Grace, there is no debt due!

beloved 57

See, once for any reason we say its due us, it by default comes under works which equates to a debt owed !

Click to expand...

God's Grace does not take into account any works a man does, but it is given undeservedly: no man deserves it.
Still, according to His Mercy, He purposed to lavish His Love upon those of His choosing.

How's that? ☺

~~~~~

nanja

Yes, but If they proclaim His Grace is due them, then it is no more Grace!

Click to expand...

Exactly !

God's Grace does not take into account any works a man does, but it is given undeservedly: no man deserves it.
Still, according to His Mercy, He purposed to lavish His Love upon those of His choosing.

How's that? ☺

Click to expand...

I could not have said it better, Thank You !

Not submitted unto the righteousness of God in the Gospel !

Not submitted unto the righteousness of God in the Gospel !

Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now this not submitting themselves to the Righteousness of God doeth include many things, the many Truths contained in the Gospel of Christ, by which the Righteousness of God is revealed by preaching Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Not only is found therein a Righteousness Imputed apart from works [any acts of men that are causative effects] like faith or repentance or any type of evangelical obedience, but it also includes what God has made known of His Purpose of Election in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

And His discriminating Love and Mercy only upon some Rom 9:13-16

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Gods Righteousness in this matter is unto natural men unrighteous Vs 14 "Is there unrighteousness with God?"

And natural men do not submit to this Righteousness of God, judging it to be unequal !

Even among the jews, of mainly Rom 9-11 are dealing with, they believed that coming into favor with God was done by having a religious zeal of God Rom 10:2 and not by a discriminating Election of some. Remember the pharisee in Christ's Parable Lk 18:11-12

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

They believe it was obtained by willing and running Rom 9:16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth[a discriminating] mercy.

Hence they rejected the Gospel Doctrines of Election by Grace See Lk 4:24-29

24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

Click to expand...

Yet this Doctrine is also Part of the Righteousness of God revaled in His Gospel, it reveals who God saves and loves as sinners, only His Elect !

beloved57 said:

Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now this not submitting themselves to the Righteousness of God doeth include many things, the many Truths contained in the Gospel of Christ, by which the Righteousness of God is revealed by preaching Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Not only is found therein a Righteousness Imputed apart from works [any acts of men that are causative effects] like faith or repentance or any type of evangelical obedience, but it also includes what God has made known of His Purpose of Election in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

And His discriminating Love and Mercy only upon some Rom 9:13-16

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Gods Righteousness in this matter is unto natural men unrighteous Vs 14 "Is there unrighteousness with God?"

And natural men do not submit to this Righteousness of God, judging it to be unequal !

Even among the jews, of mainly Rom 9-11 are dealing with, they believed that coming into favor with God was done by having a religious zeal of God Rom 10:2 and not by a discriminating Election of some. Remember the pharisee in Christ's Parable Lk 18:11-12

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

They believe it was obtained by willing and running Rom 9:16

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth[a discriminating] mercy.

Hence they rejected the Gospel Doctrines of Election by Grace See Lk 4:24-29



Yet this Doctrine is also Part of the Righteousness of God revaled in His Gospel, it reveals who God saves and loves as sinners, only His Elect !

Click to expand...

Amen!

Just as illustrated in Luke 4:24-29, even to this very day, many are filled with wrath against God,
and declaring Him to be unjust, because His Salvation is only given to His Chosen Elect, that He so loved.

Salvation is not based upon any man's freewill choice,
but only upon whom God has chosen to sheweth His discriminating mercy! Rom. 9:16 KJV

~~~~~