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Thread: Just As Pagan

  1. #16
    Rookie monochrome's Avatar
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    Derailing only slightly, I'd like to draw comparison to a completly differant set of myths: the Celtic.

    You have at the top the Dagda (the "Good God", Simaldinac, Ruahd Rofessa). He had many children, including Llewellyn, (Or Nudd, or Nuada, depending on which itereation of the faith you're reading (Welsh, Irish, or Scottish)) who fell from grace when his hand was severed, and he was no longer the pure and unblemished son. He of course got a new hand made from him some time later, and was able to reclaim his throne from Bress (beautiful), the prince of the fomori (twisted evil giants).

    One could easily see how the catholics capitalised on this when the Dagda became Jehova and Llew became Christ and Bress became Satan. Yay for destoying tradition and myth!

    There are a thousand paralells between christianity and the celtic traditions, which is interesting since Christianity didn't reach the island until their gods had all ready entered their slumber in the earth, leaving men's fate in their own hands.
    - m -
    En garde!

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    I was going to comment, but I will just let you guys have your fun.
    God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

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    Old Timer Justin (Wiccan)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monochrome
    There are a thousand paralells between christianity and the celtic traditions, which is interesting since Christianity didn't reach the island until their gods had all ready entered their slumber in the earth, leaving men's fate in their own hands.
    - m -
    Well, one probable reason for the parallels is that the myths weren't written down until a few centuries after the Christianization of Ireland. Those myths may have already been contaminated by Christian additions.
    Justin

    My lance is tipped o the hammered flame,
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    Over 750 post club Balder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docrob57
    I was going to comment, but I will just let you guys have your fun.
    Ah, join in, Doc! You'd be welcome.

    We particularly need some dissenters to get this thing rolling!
    "Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something that needs our love" ~ Rainer Maria Rilke

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    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
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    There are a thousand paralells between christianity and the celtic traditions, which is interesting since Christianity didn't reach the island until their gods had all ready entered their slumber in the earth, leaving men's fate in their own hands.
    - m -
    I forget where, I'll have to look into it over the weekend, but i read somewhere of a story of jesus traveling to britain and establishing a church personally. of course this story would hinge upon his survival of the crucifixion.
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

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    Rookie monochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)
    Well, one probable reason for the parallels is that the myths weren't written down until a few centuries after the Christianization of Ireland. Those myths may have already been contaminated by Christian additions.
    Good point. It's been so long since I researched the lore that I may have overlooked that. I was trying to think of the non-obvious ones. Saint Bridget is obviously the work of St Peter's guys, since Brigit was actually a fire goddess, much like Bel (as in Beltaine) if I recall correctly. Probably not though.

    - m -
    En garde!

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    Old Timer Justin (Wiccan)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allsmiles
    I forget where, I'll have to look into it over the weekend, but i read somewhere of a story of jesus traveling to britain and establishing a church personally. of course this story would hinge upon his survival of the crucifixion.
    Historically, it's bogus. As a myth, however, it's interesting. Most of Britain was Christianized before the Saxons came in: so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

    I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.
    Justin

    My lance is tipped o the hammered flame,
    My shield is beat o the moonlight cold;
    And I won my spurs in the Middle World,
    A thousand fathom beneath the mould."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)
    Historically, it's bogus. As a myth, however, it's interesting. Most of Britain was Christianized before the Saxons came in: so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

    I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.
    but you've heard of the myth, right?
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

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    Old Timer Justin (Wiccan)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allsmiles
    but you've heard of the myth, right?
    Oh, yeah--it's a later development of the "Joseph of Arimathea came to Glastonbury" myth--dates from the Romantic era, if I'm not mistaken.
    Justin

    My lance is tipped o the hammered flame,
    My shield is beat o the moonlight cold;
    And I won my spurs in the Middle World,
    A thousand fathom beneath the mould."

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    cool stuff.
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

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    Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)

    so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

    I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.
    I have been too - if anything written in thein the English language (not translated from another culture) comes close to real Insight and Spiritual teachings - it is these tales of King Arthour and Merlin the Wizzard. Depach Chopra (spelling) has a number of videos out on these matters - I find them very very full of answers to many questions that are "natural" in the human heart. If anyone knows of other Writings first penned in English that are as good or better or even close - let me know please.

    With Christ's Love

    servent101
    I apologize for the idiots who call themselves by Christ's namesake. It is a shame and a travesty. Christ would be embarrassed. And what a shame it is because he was such a wonderful person. [Wickwoman]

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    Old Timer Justin (Wiccan)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by servent101
    Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)



    I have been too - if anything written in thein the English language (not translated from another culture) comes close to real Insight and Spiritual teachings - it is these tales of King Arthour and Merlin the Wizzard.
    Um ... servent101 ... Most of these were originally written in French and Provencal--the Parsifal legend was first written in Mittledeutch.

    Sowwy.
    Justin

    My lance is tipped o the hammered flame,
    My shield is beat o the moonlight cold;
    And I won my spurs in the Middle World,
    A thousand fathom beneath the mould."

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    Quote Originally Posted by monochrome
    Good point. It's been so long since I researched the lore that I may have overlooked that. I was trying to think of the non-obvious ones. Saint Bridget is obviously the work of St Peter's guys, since Brigit was actually a fire goddess, much like Bel (as in Beltaine) if I recall correctly. Probably not though.

    - m -
    Hey now, you be nice to Saint Brigid. She's one of the few Saints whose miracles included creating beer out of thin air.

    By the way, you're entirely correct. Brigid was a fire goddess(and I've read far too many books on Irish history. Legend has it that Saint Brigid was a priestess of the goddess who converted to Christianity. She is attributed with all sorts of miracles(most of the stories of which are of dubious origin) and the founding of monastaries(more likely to be true but still rather dubious). However, we really have no idea whether such a person existed and just how far the stories are from the reality if she did.
    The S.P. is gone forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)
    Well, "doubt over the victor" in Zoroastrian mythology isn't in doubt, but for some (like the Norse), the ... was adopted by Judaism (and thence by Christianity) from Zoroastrianism, he really got weakened, and is no longer even remotely equivalent to God.
    oh: D'oh! I could have writtena similiar explanation if I'd checked this thread out earlier.

    Ah well. Great Post! I'd give ya rep points for it but I have to spread some around first.
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    Over 5000 post club fool's Avatar
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    I'm quite sure I've lost track of the conversation here. We were talking about pagan-Jesus-crossoverism? There was some egyption godess that got immaculatly impregnated with a god child.
    Had wise men at the event.
    Jesus had 12 deciples, there is 12 months in the year.
    The sun dies, and is reborn on the winter solstice, same as J.C.
    Diane? Dianysys? Some greek god had a big thing with turning water into wine.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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