Creation vs. Evolution

Untellectual said:

I accept the Biblical account of creation as recorded in scripture.

As for truth, you would be addressing science and the Bible or religion (I am guessing).

I am talking about the word of God, the word of truth, that converts that soul and brings a person salvation.

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Lots of Christians accept the Bible as the word of God and as true. But a significant number of them think the creation account in Genesis was a symbolic account, and never meant to be taken as a scientifically accurate story.

I, and some others see the Bible as the written version of the religious beliefs of a long-ago nomadic people who were woefully ignorant of even the basics of science. If you want us to accept the message of salvation you speak of, you would do well to show us that in those areas where science and the Bible conflict, the Bible is the correct account.

So answer this specific question – do you accept a literal reading of Genesis as an accurate account of creation?

DavisBJ said:

Lots of Christians accept the Bible as the word of God and as true. But a significant number of them think the creation account in Genesis was a symbolic account, and never meant to be taken as a scientifically accurate story.

I, and some others see the Bible as the written version of the religious beliefs of a long-ago nomadic people who were woefully ignorant of even the basics of science. If you want us to accept the message of salvation you speak of, you would do well to show us that in those areas where science and the Bible conflict, the Bible is the correct account.

So answer this specific question – do you accept a literal reading of Genesis as an accurate account of creation?

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There may be more than one account of creation in the book of Genesis found in the Bible, and I accept the entire Bible as accurate (including all the things it addresses) including these accounts (or this account) of creation.

Untellectual said:

There may be more than one account of creation in the book of Genesis found in the Bible, and I accept the entire Bible as accurate (including all the things it addresses) including these accounts (or this account) of creation.

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You seem reluctant to give a direct answer to a very specific and clear question. Maybe I am going to have to go back and offer a mea culpa to noguru. But let me give it one more go first.

Quoting from Genesis 1 (KJV):
This specifies that whales and birds were created on the fifth day, and that land animals were created on the sixth day.

Do you agree, based on these passages in Genesis that both birds and whales (on day 5) came into existence before land animals (on day 6)? Please limit you answer to “Yes, I agree”, or “No, I do not think this is a literal description of the order in which they were created.”

DavisBJ said:

You seem reluctant to give a direct answer to a very specific and clear question. Maybe I am going to have to go back and offer a mea culpa to noguru. But let me give it one more go first.

Quoting from Genesis 1 (KJV):

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. … And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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This specifies that whales and birds were created on the fifth day, and that land animals were created on the sixth day.

Do you agree, based on these passages in Genesis that both birds and whales (on day 5) came into existence before land animals (on day 6)? Please limit you answer to “Yes, I agree”, or “No, I do not think this is a literal description of the order in which they were created.”

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Your previous question asked about whether or not I had a literal interpretation? Also whether or not I believe these things happened in this order? I have only meant to say I believe the Biblical accounts of creation found in the book of Genesis. As for the days, the Bible says there were six days, evening and morning (each day). That is where I rest my hat (so to speak, as I don't regularly wear a hat). I do believe these events happened in order, however.

alwight said:

Fair enough but Michael has angels who help with the cooking apparently, but personally I'm not totally convinced of the truth of that.

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Dear Alwight,

If you don't believe I get some coaching from the angels around myself and all of you, then you haven't a clue about Heaven or Earth. There are millions of angels on Earth and In Heaven. And if you don't believe me, talk about my two roommates, who've both gained weight over the year, one roommate gained ten lbs. and another roommate gained 40 lbs. I have gained the same. 40 lbs. I have been using the Garcinia Cambogia diet and I lost 12 lbs. the first month. But now it's starting to not work, or I am eating too close to bedtime. Ask everyone about my cooking. A pinch here, a 1/2 cup here, etc., some white or red cooking wine, etc. Olive Oil and cloves of Elephant Garlic. Yum!!!

You don't want to live here, Al. I know you wanted to lose a couple lbs. yourself. I think you'll make it. I used to be skinny for my height. 5'10" and 135 lbs. Now I'm 172 lbs. They said that is fine for my height size, but it's all around my belly and I don't like it one bit and I'm working on getting rid of the belly ASAP.

We'll have to start eating Hamburger Helper and Sloppy Joes. Maybe then I'll lose some weight, because I won't want more than a tbsp. of each.

The Best To You!

Michael

Untellectual said:

Your previous question asked about whether or not I had a literal interpretation? Also whether or not I believe these things happened in this order? I have only meant to say I believe the Biblical accounts of creation found in the book of Genesis. As for the days, the Bible says there were six days, evening and morning (each day). That is where I rest my hat (so to speak, as I don't regularly wear a hat). I do believe these events happened in order, however.

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In elementary school, when your teacher said: “untellectual, can you tell us what 2 + 2 is?”, was your reply, “Well that depends on whether you are using two as defined in the numbering system that we inherited from the mid-east, or whether it might be a variant of the concept of two that we have not yet investigated”?

Even when I specifically supply two very simple and non-obscure answers for you to choose between, you fail to do it.

In science, pontificating on a subject when a simple answer is best is not a virtue, it is a detriment.

I am going to take the last sentence in your reply as the only one that was responsive to what I asked. You said:

Untellectual said:

I do believe these events happened in order.

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Does the fossil record support the appearance of birds and whales before land animals?

And … Gomen Nasai, noguru.

DavisBJ said:

In elementary school, when your teacher said: “untellectual, can you tell us what 2 + 2 is?”, was your reply, “Well that depends on whether you are using two as defined in the numbering system that we inherited from the mid-east, or whether it might be a variant of the concept of two that we have not yet investigated”?

Even when I specifically supply two very simple and non-obscure answers for you to choose between, you fail to do it.

In science, pontificating on a subject when a simple answer is best is not a virtue, it is a detriment.

I am going to take the last sentence in your reply as the only one that was responsive to what I asked. You said:

Does the fossil record support the appearance of birds and whales before land animals?

And … Gomen Nasai, noguru.

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そう簡単にあきらめる？
Sō kantan ni akirameru?

こんなに早くあきらめる？
Kon'nani hayaku akirameru?

DavisBJ said:

In elementary school, when your teacher said: “untellectual, can you tell us what 2 + 2 is?”, was your reply, “Well that depends on whether you are using two as defined in the numbering system that we inherited from the mid-east, or whether it might be a variant of the concept of two that we have not yet investigated”?

Even when I specifically supply two very simple and non-obscure answers for you to choose between, you fail to do it.

In science, pontificating on a subject when a simple answer is best is not a virtue, it is a detriment.

I am going to take the last sentence in your reply as the only one that was responsive to what I asked. You said:

Does the fossil record support the appearance of birds and whales before land animals?

And … Gomen Nasai, noguru.

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I believe the fossil record agrees with the world-wide flood of the Bible.

As for your two alternatives, I believe you presented a false dichotomy which is why I answered you the way I did.

Untellectual said:

I believe the fossil record agrees with the world-wide flood of the Bible.

As for your two alternatives, I believe you presented a false dichotomy which is why I answered you the way I did.

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And now we begin the dance again.

Are you thankful to Ellen G White for starting this style of dance? A style that some would like to call "science" but in reality is more like "shadow puppets".

noguru said:

And now we begin the dance again.

Are you thankful to Ellen G White for starting this style of dance.

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I actually don't know what you are talking about. I have heard of Ellen G White but I can't remember who she is.

Untellectual said:

I think you mean to talk about the Michael on TOL I was just conversing with?

The Bible talks about the devil and his angels.

I know that Michael in the Bible is the archangel, if we can use that term. A prince really?

Jude refers to Michael as well.

But my point was that I don't think Michael on TOL knows anything about my guardian angel.

Does the Bible speak of guardian angels? That would be my source of truth.

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Dear Untellectual,

You do have a guardian angel and many other angels have helped you in the past besides. And it wouldn't surprise me if two angels are helping your guardian angel at certain times. How else do you think you could act and be so well? How do you think you pick the right words to even express yourself? You are guided by angels who try to help you learn and do what you need to do each day. Yeah, you don't believe me. Oh well, that doesn't make it any less true! I know there are over 3 angels in my house, that's for sure. Many angels help me. I am fighting the devil for your sakes, and you don't even know it or know me. You would just rather belittle me without knowing the truth about me, or where I came from, or what my real history is, etc. You don't know me at all.

God Is A Precious God!!

Michael

Untellectual said:

I actually don't know what you are talking about. I have heard of Ellen G White but I can't remember who she is.

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I am not surprised that you are not even aware of the historical underpinnings of your "scientific" objections to following real researchers in these fields. I bet you think this is all just your idea, right?

Hint: Her name in my response is actually text that marks a link about her.

MichaelCadry said:

Dear Untellectual,

You do have a guardian angel and many other angels have helped you in the past besides. And it wouldn't surprise me if two angels are helping your guardian angel at certain times. How else do you think you could act and be so well? How do you think you pick the right words to even express yourself? You are guided by angels who try to help you learn and do what you need to do each day. Yeah, you don't believe me. Oh well, that doesn't make it any less true! I know there are over 3 angels in my house, that's for sure. Many angels help me. I am fighting the devil for your sakes, and you don't even know it or know me. You would just rather belittle me without knowing the truth about me, or where I came from, or what my real history is, etc. You don't know me at all.

God Is A Precious God!!

Michael

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I do believe in angels, but I don't know who you are. My guess is that you are not a Michael from the Bible.

Untellectual said:

I believe the fossil record agrees with the world-wide flood of the Bible.

As for your two alternatives, I believe you presented a false dichotomy which is why I answered you the way I did.

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In science, what you or I believe is of small consequence. Do a little checking and see what the fossil record actually shows as to whether birds and whales precede land animals.

noguru said:

I am not surprised that you are not even aware of the historical underpinnings of your "scientific" objections to following real researchers in these fields. I bet you think this is all just your idea, right?

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I have a book authored by her that was given to me by someone, but I haven't read it. I understood growing up that whatever her beliefs were she might be a part of a cult. I looked in the book but I don't know what church/denomination she is from. I have a guess, but I don't know for certain and what I just looked for is not there in the book.

We are all influenced by others, but I don't even know what you are asking. WHAT is not my idea?

DavisBJ said:

In science, what you or I believe is of small consequence. Do a little checking and see what the fossil record actually shows as to whether birds and whales precede land animals.

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This can only be "are you asking about creation or the flood?".

noguru said:

A style that some would like to call "science" but in reality is more like "shadow puppets".

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I don't know what you mean.

noguru said:

Hint: Her name in my response is actually text that marks a link about her.

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Okay. But I prefer the Bible.

Untellectual said:

I have a book authored by here that was given to me by someone, but I haven't read it. I understood growing up that whatever her beliefs were she might be a part of a cult. I looked in the book but I don't know what church/denomination she is from. I have a guess, but I don't know for certain and what I just looked for is not there in the book.

We are all influenced by others, but I don't even know what you are asking. WHAT is not my idea?

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She is the historical founder of modern day YEC objections to the church and science. Prior to her "visions", many Christians who sought to support Ussher's Chronology discovered that all the available evidence did not support this chronology of origins. So Ellen claimed that revelation from the Holy Spirit, and specifically her visions should trump any evidence in science.

Untellectual said:

Okay. But I prefer the Bible.

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Me too, just not your Ellen G White tainted version of it.