Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi Michael.
Why don't you perhaps consider loving God without having to avoid thinking about what empirical evidence seems to be suggesting?
Why does it simply have to be creationism regardless of such evidence and science?
It doesn't make any sense to me to try and make reality fit with what you would rather believe it was instead.


And all the different religious beliefs haven't caused trouble and dissent, really?
Darwin was a scientist whose theory happened to explain reality rather well and continues to do so regardless of whether you or I like it or not.
He is not my saviour Michael, I may not be "saved", but at least I don't have to believe in un-evidenced magic or miracles when there are more rational explanations. :nono:


What would knock my socks off would be some testable evidence of what you say, not just you saying it.


If people everywhere had the same god and religion then that might indeed be salutary for me, but they don't, and what that shows for me anyway is that people simply evolved to have such religious spiritual beliefs which even if totally untrue may still have some practical advantages.

Some people claim to KNOW that ET aliens exist and that they met them and/or were abducted by them, should I believe them too? :nono:


Dear Alwight,

You forced me to write my latest post. I didn't want to tell any of you about it, but you gave me no choice. Well, now you know part of the secret of Creation. As much as you know, always remember, there is more that you don't know too. Anyway, good buddy, I guess the b/s had to hit the fan sooner or later.

Cheerio Mate,

Michael

With Many Of God's Blessings!!

:cloud9:
 

alwight

New member
Dear Alwight,

You forced me to write my latest post. I didn't want to tell any of you about it, but you gave me no choice. Well, now you know part of the secret of Creation. As much as you know, always remember, there is more that you don't know too. Anyway, good buddy, I guess the b/s had to hit the fan sooner or later.

Cheerio Mate,

Michael

With Many Of God's Blessings!!

:cloud9:
Michael,
I think you may well get some flak here from others imo. Not because you have revealed any great knowledge but because words which are written in a book called Genesis indicates only that somebody wrote them, not that they are somehow magically literally true and historical fact.
The reason there are two slightly different creation accounts in Genesis is most probably because they came from two separate oral traditions, as told to different groups of perhaps Hebrew tribes. It also shows why treating Genesis as literal truth is nonsense.
I have to go out now but I'll say more later on. ;)
 

6days

New member
... words which are written in a book called Genesis indicates only that somebody wrote them, not that they are somehow magically literally true and historical fact.
Yes, we agree. The same can be said of any book. History books are supported by evidence.

The reason there are two slightly different creation accounts in Genesis is most probably because they came from two separate oral traditions, as told to different groups of perhaps Hebrew tribes. It also shows why treating Genesis as literal truth is nonsense.
I have to go out now but I'll say more later on. ;)
I somewhat agree with you... If Genesis had two different creation accounts, it would be nonsense.

One of the many evidences that our Bibles is Divinely inspired is the internal consistency. Our Bible likely had more than 40 authors and was written over the course of 1400 years. Yet it has one central theme from beginning to end. Archaeology has proved much of the history correct. Science has confirmed many of the Bibles truths. Yet... IF there was contradictory creation accounts, we would know that the Bible is not Divine. Genesis 1 and two are consistent with each other as the one creation event.
 

alwight

New member
One of the many evidences that our Bibles is Divinely inspired is the internal consistency. Our Bible likely had more than 40 authors and was written over the course of 1400 years. Yet it has one central theme from beginning to end. Archaeology has proved much of the history correct. Science has confirmed many of the Bibles truths. Yet... IF there was contradictory creation accounts, we would know that the Bible is not Divine. Genesis 1 and two are consistent with each other as the one creation event.
So how can we conclude conclusively whether man was created before or after other forms of life?:think:

Genesis 1:25-27 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image.

Genesis 2:18-19 And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
 

6days

New member
So how can we conclude conclusively whether man was created before or after other forms of life?:think:

Genesis 1:25-27 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image.

Genesis 2:18-19 And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
Well... I guess you can assume the author is an idiot and contradicts what he said just a few sentences previous. Or, we can assume the author is providing further details from the creation event in chapter 1. Chapter 2 is not telling us the order, but simply providing more details. Most translations say something like this for Genesis 2:18-19
"The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
 

alwight

New member
Well... I guess you can assume the author is an idiot and contradicts what he said just a few sentences previous. Or, we can assume the author is providing further details from the creation event in chapter 1. Chapter 2 is not telling us the order, but simply providing more details. Most translations say something like this for Genesis 2:18-19
"The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
You're simply telling me perhaps that for your convenience and comfort Gen1 was not actually put in the actual order it happened, even though it could just as easily have been, for clarity, and probably would have been had the author been the same person who wrote Gen 2.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear 6days,

What makes you think that Genesis chapter one had a different author than Genesis chapter two?? Seems unlikely. How do you explain dinosaur bones found that are older than our Adam or Eve could be. How can you think that Adam and Eve had to live during the same time as the dinosaurs. Wouldn't they get eaten by a Tyrannosaurus Rex?? When did Neanderthal man live? After our Adam or before? Where is the source of that information. You know I've been always on your side from the beginning here, but this thing I can't get over at all. Perhaps there are a few secrets even you are not aware of, 6days. Could be. The Lord has shared many hidden things with me, so one more is not going to surprise me. Did He tell you that Uri Geller was the antichrist? You don't believe me? Ask God when you see Him and see if I was wrong. Did He tell you that this Israeli psychic's number was as the number of the soldiers in a captain's army or the number of followers of a leader. Do you understand what I'm saying here. Did an angel explain to you that this was the number of the beast (the amount of people) and his number is six hundred and sixty six? And that God would not allow more than that number of people to be able to receive these same abilities as Uri Geller and that the False Prophet was Jean-Pierre Girard, a Frenchman who came being able to do the same things as Uri could do, so that he 'healed' Uri's wound (people not believing him, saying he was just a magician). That's just the beginning of all of the secrets that the Lord has shared with me. There's a lot going on that you aren't aware of 6days. I love you DEARLY enough that I changed my entire belief system to accommodate you, but it still leaves me at odds with myself. You're on your own with this one thing.

Praise The Lord,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Alwight & Michael - Showdown!

Alwight & Michael - Showdown!

So how can we conclude conclusively whether man was created before or after other forms of life?:think:

Genesis 1:25-27 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image.

Genesis 2:18-19 And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.


Thanks so much Alwight, for sticking up for me. I know it's a tricky situation, but there is only one answer. First you'll notice that Genesis, chapter 1 uses the term "God." Genesis chapter 2 all of a sudden uses the term "Lord God." I'll tell you why at some other time. Why did Jesus say "This GENERATION shall not pass until ALL of these things be fulfilled." That's because our Generation begins at the time OUR Adam was formed on the earth. It has nothing to do with those prior or those afterwards, except it be our Lord Jesus. There were generations before OUR Adam and life on Earth. Why does Jesus say that those who pierced Him would also see Him at His return? That's because they were there in another body and they are now on Earth in another body. Did you not read in Rev. 20:5, 'But the REST (remainder) of the DEAD did not live AGAIN until the 1,000 years were fulfilled.' It is quite like reincarnation 6days, which I'm sure you also don't believe in. You'd best have a heart to heart talk with the Lord about what's all going on down here in this life on Earth. With every life we live, we become more able to be like His servants and like the angels. He is raising 'children' (us) up to Himself. That's what all of this life on Earth is about. During this generation of Adam and Eve, we are supposed to learn the difference between good and evil. And we choose which we will have. Thank God that there is a Savior for us all, or none of us would make it to be with Him. None of us would make it to Heaven, neither you, nor I. Just some things to ponder upon before you make your final decisions. There's a lot more that's happened to me than just these things. It is only the icing on the cake.

Praise God,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear 6days,

Just like the Lord and God also saw that the earth was filled with evil/violence, the Lord repented that He made man (See Gen. 6:6 and 6:11). So He destroyed them all and left one man and one woman and their children alive and killed the rest. Don't you think also that He would completely destroy every being off of the Earth and 'form man again.' You will further note that in Gen. chapter 1:20 and "God" created, it says that the fowl shall come forth from the waters. But in Gen. 2, it says the "Lord God" Formed the creatures and fowl from the ground." (Gen. 2:19). So in one instance it is one way and in the other instance, it is the other way, eh? It was done this way for a reason and not revealed until the time of the end. Many mysteries will also be revealed once the seventh angel sounds, 'the mystery of God shall be finished, as He has declared to His servants, the prophets.' (Rev. 10:7). Jesus also said to His disciples that there was more He could tell them, but they were not yet able to bear it. I'm not quite sure where that scriptural reference is, but it's there. Why do I care whether you, 6days, believe what I have to say anyway? It's because I care about you; that's the only reason. Look how the Lord destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Not ten righteous there. What more do you think of the people before OUR own Adam (and Eve). There's much more going on behind the scenes than you give God credit for 6days. He has done a lot of things that He hasn't asked your permission for also. There is only ONE story of Creation. That is the one re being done in six days. And on the seventh day, God rested from all of the work He had made.

God Be With You Always,

Michael
 
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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes, we agree. The same can be said of any book. History books are supported by evidence.


I somewhat agree with you... If Genesis had two different creation accounts, it would be nonsense.

One of the many evidences that our Bibles is Divinely inspired is the internal consistency. Our Bible likely had more than 40 authors and was written over the course of 1400 years. Yet it has one central theme from beginning to end. Archaeology has proved much of the history correct. Science has confirmed many of the Bibles truths. Yet... IF there was contradictory creation accounts, we would know that the Bible is not Divine. Genesis 1 and two are consistent with each other as the one creation event.


Dear 6days,

What I have said does not make the Bible any less Divine. Only in your head and words is that found. I also don't believe that gays should be able to get married. Just because we agree or disagree with each other doesn't make it any less 'Divine.'

Michael

:cloud9:
 

6days

New member
Dear 6days,

What makes you think that Genesis chapter one had a different author than Genesis chapter two?? Seems unlikely.
They have the same author Michael.

How do you explain dinosaur bones found that are older than our Adam or Eve could be.
We don't find dinosaur bones older than Adam and Eve unless you choose to believe evolutionists over Biblical scientists.
We have discussed this before. Are you interested in reading articles from scientists who explain why evolutionary dating is wrong?

How can you think that Adam and Eve had to live during the same time as the dinosaurs. Wouldn't they get eaten by a Tyrannosaurus Rex??
Why would that be a problem? If you read the first two books of Genesis you will notice God created all beasts as vegetarians, correct? It is much later after sin has entered the world that God allows the eating of meat.

When did Neanderthal man live? After our Adam or before? Where is the source of that information.
They are descendants of Adam and Eve.
Source... God's Word.
Would you like the verses?
Would you like info on in recent years, science has found that most of us are descendants of Neandertals?
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
6days & Michael 10-18-2014pm

6days & Michael 10-18-2014pm

They have the same author Michael.


We don't find dinosaur bones older than Adam and Eve unless you choose to believe evolutionists over Biblical scientists.
We have discussed this before. Are you interested in reading articles from scientists who explain why evolutionary dating is wrong?


Why would that be a problem? If you read the first two books of Genesis you will notice God created all beasts as vegetarians, correct? It is much later after sin has entered the world that God allows the eating of meat.


They are descendants of Adam and Eve.
Source... God's Word.
Would you like the verses?
Would you like info on in recent years, science has found that most of us are descendants of Neandertals?


Dear 6days,

Yes, I'm interested in all that you can provide regarding these discrepancies. I am willing to hear all that you have. Very interested. I know that the only way we will both know is when we face God and can ask Him. But, please let me know what you have. Are you saying that the dinosaurs went extinct before Noah's Flood? Abel was eating meat soon enough. So was Ty Rex, evidently, per your speech. I'm just curious. Do you think that God made this Universe and Earth just for these past 6-7,000 years?? Help me with my disbelief. All of this just for 7,000 years?? Maybe, but I doubt it. But maybe. I am always open to another person's point of view if they say what God says.

Thanks so much buddy!!

Michael
 
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alwight

New member
Thanks so much Alwight, for sticking up for me. I know it's a tricky situation, but there is only one answer. First you'll notice that Genesis, chapter 1 uses the term "God." Genesis chapter 2 all of a sudden uses the term "Lord God." I'll tell you why at some other time. Why did Jesus say "This GENERATION shall not pass until ALL of these things be fulfilled." That's because our Generation begins at the time OUR Adam was formed on the earth. It has nothing to do with those prior or those afterwards, except it be our Lord Jesus. There were generations before OUR Adam and life on Earth. Why does Jesus say that those who pierced Him would also see Him at His return? That's because they were there in another body and they are now on Earth in another body. Did you not read in Rev. 20:5, 'But the REST (remainder) of the DEAD did not live AGAIN until the 1,000 years were fulfilled.' It is quite like reincarnation 6days, which I'm sure you also don't believe in. You'd best have a heart to heart talk with the Lord about what's all going on down here in this life on Earth. With every life we live, we become more able to be like His servants and like the angels. He is raising 'children' (us) up to Himself. That's what all of this life on Earth is about. During this generation of Adam and Eve, we are supposed to learn the difference between good and evil. And we choose which we will have. Thank God that there is a Savior for us all, or none of us would make it to be with Him. None of us would make it to Heaven, neither you, nor I. Just some things to ponder upon before you make your final decisions. There's a lot more that's happened to me than just these things. It is only the icing on the cake.

Praise God,

Michael
Like many devout Christians Michael imo you can only consider to be true from what you want to be true.
I don't believe in magic books or miraculous events, fantastic things can happen in fiction and we know that humans like to use their imagination to embellish and spin, not least religious evangelists.
As a non-believer myself it seems much more likely that the Biblical creation story was simply a basic traditional myth which was probably derived from two separate Hebrew oral traditions, penned by scribes with their own style and word usage.
Other creation story versions clearly never made it into the Bible but all could only have been written down after the advent of writing itself and of Hebrew scribes to write them.
Human history goes back long before any detailed written records were ever kept.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Alwight,

I do understand what you mean. But Moses was able to both read and write. And those with him also, I would gather. Why would God send down a list of commandments and the people couldn't even read them?? There are a lot of things we DON'T KNOW, but that is okay because time will tell us what is true and what is false. We will face our God and ask Him anything we like. He will give us an answer or He will tell us to go to Hell. From Hell (the center of the Earth, no bottom because of gravity; the bottomless pit, etc.), the next step is the permanency of the Lake of Fire, Our Sun. It is endless. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but God puts it into me, so that those who see things their way start seeing things His Way. That is it in a nutshell. That is what it has always been. Do you need to experience burning for 1,000 years before you can learn to choose good over evil, and choose God?? That IS the question! He's not mean. We have our choice. Anyone who would laugh in the face of their Creator and maker gets what he dares to do. I'm sorry, I guess.

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Believe what you will Michael and I'll do the same. :e4e:


Aww, Alwight, don't be bummed. Time can work wonders still. You have a good heart. Don't be do disheartened so quickly. I pray for you, and that counts A LOT!! Mostly because, being one of the witnesses, God and I are extremely close and He hears what I pray for. So hang in there. You could believe now of course. Or you can believe in 1,000 years from now. There is still leeway. I suggest though that you consider the decision you make. You'll be okay Alwight!! Don't be troubled!! You have been a WONDERFUL FRIEND to me. Even some of my friends have not been as good as you. God notices that, so don't think He doesn't. You'll be okay, dude!! I am not the judge, but I do believe, with my prayers to boot, you'll do just fine, mate!!

Many Cheerios (makes a good breakfast),

Michael

:cloud9:

:jump: :third:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey 6days,

Tell me enough to convince me. If you can possibly convince me, I will back down. Only because! There's things I have to hear also, like your rebuttal. Let's hear it.

Abel started eating meat. Did that mean he and his family (Adam, Eve, and Cain) have to dodge the flesh-eating Tyrannosaurus Rex finally? And for all the years that followed? Please convince me or I can't help myself.

The thing is, I'm having trouble with what you're trying to say, and need some feedback from you. I know you have it because you are not new at this. May the Fear of God Be Within You!!

Michael
 

alwight

New member
Aww, Alwight, don't be bummed. Time can work wonders still. You have a good heart. Don't be do disheartened so quickly. I pray for you, and that counts A LOT!! Mostly because, being one of the witnesses, God and I are extremely close and He hears what I pray for. So hang in there. You could believe now of course. Or you can believe in 1,000 years from now. There is still leeway. I suggest though that you consider the decision you make. You'll be okay Alwight!! Don't be troubled!! You have been a WONDERFUL FRIEND to me. Even some of my friends have not been as good as you. God notices that, so don't think He doesn't. You'll be okay, dude!! I am not the judge, but I do believe, with my prayers to boot, you'll do just fine, mate!!

Many Cheerios (makes a good breakfast),

Michael

:cloud9:

:jump: :third:
Thanks Michael, but I am not disheartened, though I've probably given you up as a hopeless case, I'm sure you'll believe whatever you will regardless of anything I say. :plain:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Thanks Michael, but I am not disheartened, though I've probably given you up as a hopeless case, I'm sure you'll believe whatever you will regardless of anything I say. :plain:


No Alwight,

I can change my mind. I listen to what you say. Tell me.

Michael

:cloud9: :yoshi:
 

6days

New member
MichaelCadry said:
Tell me enough to convince me. If you can possibly convince me, I will back down. Only because! There's things I have to hear also, like your rebuttal. Let's hear it.

Abel started eating meat. Did that mean he and his family (Adam, Eve, and Cain) have to dodge the flesh-eating Tyrannosaurus Rex finally? And for all the years that followed? Please convince me or I can't help myself

Michael...Its good to consider what alwight, myself and others tell you, but ultimately let Gods Word convince you.


You asked why I said the beasts were created vegetarian. Gods Word seems to indicate that in Genesis 1:29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps.


The Bible does not tell us when carnivory began, but its not mentioned and 'approved' by God in the cursed creation until much later. After the flood in Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.
 
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