'You must be 'born again' or else'!

nikolai_42

Well-known member
What do we need saving from?

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ".

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

We do not naturally tend to those things which are necessities for life (eternal life). Our ideas of obedience and "goodness" are marred by our natural self-seeking. And it is not that God decided to make us self-seeking, but rather that we find ourselves born into a fallen state. We are separated from God (again, naturally) because of Adam - and we wouldn't want to go back to dwelling in Eden for the same reason Adam and Eve didn't want to walk with God anymore (and hid themselves). That is the natural state of things in this world. And God is not pleased with man as he is - but that doesn't mean He removes Himself from the world or keeps man at arm's length. Rather, it is we who keep Him at arm's length (as your attitude towards the bible and, it seems, God generally seems to reflect). We may think we are good, but in doing so and doing so separate from God, we show our own folly. All of us naturally do that. In elevating our own goodness, we automatically distance ourselves from the Living God. As Jesus said, one cannot serve two masters. He will either hate the one and love the other or love the one and hate the other. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand - it must fall.

That sounds like your upbringing (based only on your brief testimony here). You were trying to serve God outwardly but inwardly were not doing so (much less inclined in that way). It was a case of "I was taught this, it must be true, I will do it because this is what is right". Not because you liked it or agreed with it. Now you are simply displaying who you are serving. You didn't (based only on limited knowledge, I admit) turn from God, you never really turned to Him. You were simply trying to avoid that nasty place where evil people go. The problem is, that is the gospel of Jesus Christ without the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that eternal life IS to know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Salvation is not simply "fire insurance" but "Christ in you, the hope of glory". Bottom line, your heart rejects God (always has) and your are simply trusting in yourself. Where will that get you?

So I ask again - on what basis do you reject scripture, God and the need for salvation? You said the bible was just human writings - all that does is put it on a par with everything ever written and allow you to pick and choose what is right and wrong. How are you going to do that?
 

Iamimagined

New member
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ".

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

We do not naturally tend to those things which are necessities for life (eternal life). Our ideas of obedience and "goodness" are marred by our natural self-seeking. And it is not that God decided to make us self-seeking, but rather that we find ourselves born into a fallen state. We are separated from God (again, naturally) because of Adam - and we wouldn't want to go back to dwelling in Eden for the same reason Adam and Eve didn't want to walk with God anymore (and hid themselves). That is the natural state of things in this world. And God is not pleased with man as he is - but that doesn't mean He removes Himself from the world or keeps man at arm's length. Rather, it is we who keep Him at arm's length (as your attitude towards the bible and, it seems, God generally seems to reflect). We may think we are good, but in doing so and doing so separate from God, we show our own folly. All of us naturally do that. In elevating our own goodness, we automatically distance ourselves from the Living God. As Jesus said, one cannot serve two masters. He will either hate the one and love the other or love the one and hate the other. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand - it must fall.

That sounds like your upbringing (based only on your brief testimony here). You were trying to serve God outwardly but inwardly were not doing so (much less inclined in that way). It was a case of "I was taught this, it must be true, I will do it because this is what is right". Not because you liked it or agreed with it. Now you are simply displaying who you are serving. You didn't (based only on limited knowledge, I admit) turn from God, you never really turned to Him. You were simply trying to avoid that nasty place where evil people go. The problem is, that is the gospel of Jesus Christ without the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that eternal life IS to know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Salvation is not simply "fire insurance" but "Christ in you, the hope of glory". Bottom line, your heart rejects God (always has) and your are simply trusting in yourself. Where will that get you?

So I ask again - on what basis do you reject scripture, God and the need for salvation? You said the bible was just human writings - all that does is put it on a par with everything ever written and allow you to pick and choose what is right and wrong. How are you going to do that?

Because none of it is the slightest bit credible!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ".
:up:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
 

Iamimagined

New member
:up:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

More meaningless copy and paste
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
More meaningless copy and paste


1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
This was the theme of my childhood, slammed into me by my parents and the ghastly Pentecostal church I was forced to attend. I resisted until I was eleven before giving into the pressure of giving 'my heart to Jesus'. I played the part but never felt comfortable with the concept. I never had the slightest feeling any deity was there for me. I had a problem I couldn't share with my parents, and asked Jesus to give me some help with it, but he never came through for me. I drew the obvious conclusion that either he didn't care, or more likely died 2000 years ago. By the time I left home at 19 when I married I had lost my faith, as had my husband.

When our kids were born we left it up to them to decide if they wanted a faith or not with no pressure from us. All three are Christians but not Biblical literalists and liberal in their approach. Religion is never discussed by us.

no wonder !

all that are from arminian churches.

It's an epic fail
 

Iamimagined

New member
Which is just more "human writings". Why accept your declaration over scripture's?

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

A daft verse! The heart is not wicked at all, it is just an organ of the body needed to pump blood around it.
 

Truster

New member
The heart in the verse of Jeremiah is not the blood pump. Heart also has a symbolic meaning in the scripture and it is the symbolic meaning that Jeremiah understood and referred to in this verse.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
A daft verse! The heart is not wicked at all, it is just an organ of the body needed to pump blood around it.

That's not what was being referred to - rather the inward parts of man. Should we reject all the poets who ever mentioned the heart in an emotional or other non-literal sense just because their "human writings" fail to properly identify what the heart is for?

You still haven't answered my question...
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
No one in reality or on forums has convinced me yet, but keep trying!

Convince us that you, this "human" identified as "Iamimagined," posted the above post. Give us the evidence. Any witnesses? We've never seen you, heard you......

I will wait.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
A daft verse! The heart is not wicked at all, it is just an organ of the body needed to pump blood around it.
Follow it then, Oprah! How many times has your heart decieved you?

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

It's decieving you now.
 
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