User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Everyone Here is a Genius Until...

  1. #1
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559

    Everyone Here is a Genius Until...

    Something comes along that no one can refute. And then everyone just ignores it. Wonderful strategy, but it's really thin.

    We know from clear archaeological evidence that the peoples known as the Phillistines never even entered the region until the 12th century B.C.E., and the "city of Gerar" in which Isaac, the son of Abraham, had his encounter with Abimelech, the "king of the Phillistines" (in Genesis 26:1) was in fact a tiny, insignificant rural village up until the 8th century B.C.E. It couldn't have been the capital of the regional king of a people who didn't yet exist!
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  2. #2
    Over 1000 post club On Fire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,075
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by allsmiles
    Something comes along that no one can refute. And then everyone just ignores it. Wonderful strategy, but it's really thin.
    Just because you call it "clear archaeological evidence" doesn't make it so.

    "If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart." - C.S. Lewis

  3. #3
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559
    Did I say that it was clear? No, I didn't. I quoted it, and I quoted it in the Simply Curious thread and said that I was making no assertions.

    Thank you!
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  4. #4
    Friendly Neighborhood Admin Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,316
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1037
    Wait... you mean some people who work as archeologists are unbelievers? This changes everything!

  5. #5
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559
    Maybe I should have entitled this thread "Everyone's a Comedian..."
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  6. #6
    TOL Legend Granite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Live free or die.
    Posts
    11,960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    521790


    To quote a gangster: If I don't understand it, get rid of it.
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
    --George Monbiot




    Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    --Homer J. Simpson

  7. #7
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559
    The amount of responses and views is fairly telling.
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  8. #8
    Over 4000 post club The Berean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Wacky California
    Posts
    4,664
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 735 Times in 462 Posts

    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    327727
    We know from clear archaeological evidence that the peoples known as the Phillistines never even entered the region until the 12th century B.C.E., and the "city of Gerar" in which Isaac, the son of Abraham, had his encounter with Abimelech, the "king of the Phillistines" (in Genesis 26:1) was in fact a tiny, insignificant rural village up until the 8th century B.C.E. It couldn't have been the capital of the regional king of a people who didn't yet exist!
    What is the source for this statement?
    Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

    What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

    I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
    . -Ktoyou

    I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

  9. #9
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559
    http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm is the source. I've cut out sections to shorten it for this thread.


    The Problem of the Exodus Story and the First Great Revision of Judaism
    about 1200 B.C.E.


    ...there is no evidence from the records of Egypt itself that the events of Exodus ever occured, either archaeologically or documentarily in the manner in which the Bible describes the events. The reality is that if a series of plagues had been visited upon Egypt, thousands of slaves escaped in a mass runaway, and the army of the Pharaoh were swallowed up by the Red Sea, such events would doubtless have made it into the Egyptian documentary record. But the reality is that there isn't a single word describing any such events.
    This is getting off to a good start.

    Instead, what we do have from Egyptian sources is a remarkably different story of the Exodus. From about the beginning of the second millenium B.C.E., through about 1200 B.C.E., Egypt ruled the region known today as Palestine. How do we know this? We know it not only from Egyptian records themselves, which talk about tribute taken from the various towns and cities in Canaan, but from archaeological evidence within the region itself, which shows a number of settlements which were clearly Egyptian military outposts.
    Timeline and evidence. Is everyone paying attention? You need to pay attention when you refute all of this. I'm rooting for you, you guys have answers for everything, don't let me down!

    During this time, the region which was to become the land of Israel was sparsely populated and was populated by one of two groups (we're not sure which), either the Apiru or Shoshu peoples. The linguistic association of Apiru (sometimes Habiru) with the word, "Hebrew" had long, in the minds of scholars, been considered good evidence that this was the group that gave rise to the Hebrews, but we now know that the association wasn't quite that simple. The name may have been from that source, but the people probably weren't.
    Still paying attention?

    In any event, the highlands of northern Palestine which was home to the Kingdom of Israel has a highly variable climate. Agricultural productivity, and the ability of people to sustain trade with the lowlands, was subject to varying climatic conditions, meaning that famine was a frequent occurence. When crops failed and trade could not be sustained, it was not uncommon for people to flee the region and head for refuge where crops were dependable. The nearest such place was the Nile delta in Egypt.

    So many of the "Hebrews" (culturally indistinct from the Canaanites at this time), who were citizens of Egypt, fled to the Nile delta. Time and again. Every time there was a famine in Judah, Israel or Canaan, refugees headed for Egypt. The event was so common, and the refugees so numerous, that they eventually became a substantial minority group, influential in Egypt, where they were known as the Hyksos, as is now very clear from the archaeological record.

    The story of the expulsion of the Hyksos is easily the closest parallel we have from either the Egyptian record or the archaeological record to the story of the Exodus as recorded in the Bible. There are problems, though. Besides the Exodus story line, the biggest problem is the dates: the Bible places the Exodus at about 1200 B.C.E., yet the story of the Hyksos culminates in 1570 B.C.E. It is quite likely that the story of the Hyksos is the story that eventually, through generations of revisionistic retelling, became the myth of the Exodus -- another example of history being rewritten to flatter the storytellers rather than to record the unvarnished truth.
    More dates, I hope you all are paying attention.

    Anyway, the Hyksos grew in influence until they eventually took control of Egypt, which they ruled, with considerable cruelty and tyrrany during the Fifteenth Dynasty, beginning in 1670 B.C.E. The Egyptians had finally had enough, though, and rebelled against the rule of the Hyksos and drove them out a century later in 1570 B.C.E. They weren't just driven out, either; the Egyptians pushed them back into Canaan with considerable force, driving them all the way to the Syrian frontier, sacking and burning Canaanite cities along the way.
    Hopefully this post is harder to ignore.
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  10. #10
    Over 5000 post club fool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,724
    Thanks
    440
    Thanked 1,095 Times in 749 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    309188
    That's a great essay
    I might have to print that
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

  11. #11
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Some where not near you.
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Good, very good Smiles. Pretty rock solid.

  12. #12
    Journeyman justchristian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    136
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    177
    Umm ok. Interesting history lesson. Just curious, is this all actually accepted history confirmed by other sources?
    Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever.

  13. #13
    TOL Legend Granite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Live free or die.
    Posts
    11,960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    521790
    Yes, unfortunately it is.

    Two possible Christian answers:

    Secular historians simply don't know what they're talking about and are totally, totally wrong

    Or

    There's a reasonable explanation for all this

    The idea that scholars who know what they're talking about might be right is, of course, never entertained.
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
    --George Monbiot




    Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    --Homer J. Simpson

  14. #14
    Over 1000 post club allsmiles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Wild Wild East
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    559
    The most important thing anyone can learn from 1st century greco-roman mystery cults is that complex religious systems can arise and develop without an historical founder.

  15. #15
    Journeyman justchristian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    136
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    177
    I assure you I am more than entertaining the thought they are right and that they no what they are talking about. Unfortunately I am not a historian so I can offer little to refute at least the historical aspect of this. Honestly I don't know. I am not sure I believe this account of history, but I will read up on it more later tonight when I have the time. Thanks allsmiles for the links. I am quite liberal and more contextual when it comes to the Bible - esspecially the OT - so I don't know if you are interested in my view of all of this. But if you are I'd be happy to prepare a thorough response - this is one of the more interesting biblical contests I have encountered in awhile.
    Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us