Real Science Radio: The Most Informative Neanderthal Show Ever Pt. 2

6days

New member
Daelelean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Or compare a bullbdog to a great dane...same species.

Different subspecies, actually.

Sorry DS, but that isn't correct. They are the same species...Canis lupus.

But, its sort of immaterial since the classifications are so subjective.

Most evolutionists in the past said Neandertals were a separate species ... that has changed to sub species,or cousin now.

It doesn't really matter ..... As the OP calls it... They are human.

So...Great Danes, Bulldogs and Chihuahua are all the same species.

Likewise Europeans, Neandertals, , Pygmies and Denisovansare all humans.
 

gcthomas

New member
6Days, the science that suggests that there was some inter-breeding was based on the dating of specific genome changes, which came up with a date tens of thousands of years ago. This is more recent than the common ancestor so therefore inter-breeding.

Do you agree with the science here? If you support it enough to trust the inter -breeding conclusion you must also support the dating method it depends on.

Do you? Without the tens of thousands of years there is no evidence of inter-breeding, only a common ancestor.

Which is it?
 

6days

New member
gcthomas said:
6Days, the science that suggests that there was some inter-breeding was based on the dating of specific genome changes, which came up with a date tens of thousands of years ago. This is more recent than the common ancestor so therefore inter-breeding.*Do you agree with the science here? If you support it enough to trust the inter -breeding conclusion you must also support the dating method it depends on.*Do you? Without the tens of thousands of years there is no evidence of inter-breeding, only a common ancestor.*Which is it?
Evolutionists have proven themselves wrong time and time again about Neandertals. *So im not about to start trusting your speculative dating of Neandertals...it is wrong as was all the other non science assumptions.What we know about Neandertals contradicts everything evolutionists once believed. Neandertals walked erect...were intelligent...used *tools. ..buried their dead...capable of speech. ..used farming practices.... it seems they enjoyed music *....created art...likely used makeup...etc. *Archeology has shown us the humanity of Neandertals.*Biblical creationists have always insisted There is no such thing as sub humans. *Neandertals are descendants of Adam and Eve. Many of us are descendants of Neandertals. *Science and archaeology are consistant with Gods Word. *Sent from Samsung Mobile
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
Sorry DS, but that isn't correct. They are the same species...Canis lupus.

The Gray Wolf is also Canis Lupus, but a different subspecies. Domestic dogs are particularly diverse in somatic variation, because they were subjected to artificial selection, the kind that selected for phenotypical traits as opposed to genotypical traits.

But, its sort of immaterial since the classifications are so subjective.

Did you come to that conclusion, before or after using it as an example?


Most evolutionists in the past said Neandertals were a separate species ... that has changed to sub species, or cousin now.

Further research pending.

It doesn't really matter ..... As the OP calls it... They are human.

Sure if you mean that all belong to the genus homo.

So...Great Danes, Bulldogs and Chihuahua are all the same species.

Likewise Europeans, Neandertals, , Pygmies and Denisovansare all humans.

And were does that fit into your dogma? Were Adam and Eve neanderthals? Did they beget neanderthals?
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
Neandertal DNA is in us. They are our ancestors...

You seem to be pretty eager to jump to that conclusion. I share DNA with my Cousins, that doesn't make them my ancestors.


We are their descendants.

Neandertals are descendants of Adam and Eve.

So what were Adam and Eve?


SOME evolutionists hate admitting we are descendants of Neandertals

What are you talking about? That Neanderthals were our ancestors was the scientific consensus for a long time, until mtDNA analysis showed otherwise. Thus the reason finding that they are in fact not our ancestors made major news media headlines as previously cited. None of the articles you have supplied have made the claim that they are our ancestors, and if you read any of the scientific literature on the matter it will state that we share a common ancestor.

Neanderthals contributing to our DNA, if that is still even the case anymore, does not support your claim that they are our ancestors.


SOME evolurionists hate admitting Neandertal DNA is in us because it is an admission that this is yet another things they were wrong on.

Vacuous rhetoric. Who is "they" and when did "they" claim that neanderthals could not have contributed to human DNA?


Evolutionists were SHOCKED with the 2010 sequencing which showed Neandertals are us.

Now you're misrepresenting the results to support your preordained conclusion. Every person on the planet is 99.9% genetically similar, Neanderthals are 99.7% similar, does that really show that they "are us"?


"Many people alive today possess some Neanderthal ancestry, according to a landmark scientific study.
The finding has surprised many experts, as previous genetic evidence suggested the Neanderthals made little or no contribution to our inheritance."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8660940.stm

"We can now say that, in all probability, there was gene flow from Neanderthals to modern humans," lead study author Ed Green of the University of California, Santa Cruz, said in a prepared statement.


You do know what gene flow is right? :think:
Probably not, but I'm sure you look it up.


Even if it were the case that humans and Neanderthals interbreed, and as my more recent sources show this is probably not the case (which I'm sure you'll just ignore), this does not prove they are our ancestors in the slightest. If anything it shows that they lived concurrently with modern humans, not sequentially. The current scientific consensus is that we share a common ancestor. Which I'm sure you'll also ignore.
 

6days

New member
Daedalean's_Sun said:
The Gray Wolf is also Canis Lupus, but a different subspecies. Domestic dogs are particularly diverse in somatic variation, because they were subjected to artificial selection, the kind that selected for phenotypical traits as opposed to genotypical traits.

:) Your claim was that different domestic dogs are called sub species. That was false.


Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Most evolutionists in the past said Neandertals were a separate species ... that has changed to sub species, or cousin now.

Further research pending.

Research has proven virtually everything evolutionists once believed is wrong....Bring on the research!! :)

Our appendix is not useless

Our bodies are not full of junk DNA

Life does not come from non life

Psuedogenes do have function and purpose

Neandertals were intelligent

ETC ETC ETC



Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
So...Great Danes, Bulldogs and Chihuahua are all the same species.
Likewise Europeans, Neandertals, , Pygmies and Denisovansare all humans.


And were does that fit into your dogma? Were Adam and Eve neanderthals? Did they beget Neanderthals?

Adam and Eve were created human, and all humans are descendants from them.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
:) Your claim was that different domestic dogs are called sub species. That was false.

Yes, that seems to be the case. At any rate the somatic variance between a Gray wolf and a German Shepard, is less than that between a German Shepard and a Chihuahua, despite the fact that the Gray wolf is a different subspecies. This is due to the difference between genotype and phenotype.



Research has proven virtually everything evolutionists once believed is wrong....Bring on the research!! :)

Our appendix is not useless
DS: It had no known use, rather because it's function was non-essential, and would commonly result in appendicitis. There is some evidence that the appendix may be a remnant of a shrunken ceca which in herbivores is used to digest cellulose. There is some dispute over this, more study is needed.


Our bodies are not full of junk DNA
DS: They are still. "Junk DNA remains a label for the portions of a genome sequence for which no discernible function has been identified".

Life does not come from non life
DS: Not unless you're trying to conflate abiogenesis with spontaneous generation, which are distinctly different things. Abiogenesis is alive and well.

Psuedogenes do have function and purpose
DS: Sure, in many cases vestigial biodata acquires new function, that is distinct from original function. In the case of pseudogenes they no longer code for proteins, although it is quite clear that they once did.


Neandertals were intelligent
DS: It was never a question whether Neanderthals were intelligent, the question was "how intelligent?". A question which we are still unraveling.

Answers in bold.


Adam and Eve were created human, and all humans are descendants from them.

You said that neanderthals were the ancestors of modern humans (homo sapiens), and you also said that Adam and Eve were the ancestors of neanderthals this means that Adam and Eve were neither Homo Sapien nor Homo Neanderthalensis, so what exactly were they?
 

6days

New member
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Your claim was that different domestic dogs are called sub species. That was false.

Yes, that seems to be the case. At any rate the somatic variance between a .....

So you agree that skeletal differences can not determine if something is a different species?

The difference between us and Neandertals is slight. It appears they may have been stronger. And...who knows, they may have been intellectually superior to us. They did have a slightly larger brain than us, but size isn't everything.



Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Research has proven virtually everything evolutionists once believed is wrong....Bring on the research!!
Our appendix is not useless
It had no known use, rather because it's function was non-essential, and would commonly result in appendicitis.

"It had no known use" so evolutionists jumped to faulty conclusions for many organs in the body in order to create evolutionary believers. Science has proven the evolutionists were wrong...

DukeMedicine "Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"

http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/news_and_publications/news_office/news/10151



Daedalean's_Sun said:
There is some evidence that the appendix may be a remnant of a shrunken ceca which in herbivores is used to digest cellulose. There is some dispute over this, more study is needed.

There is zero evidence of that. Its simply another false evolutionary belief...not science. Similarity /homologyis not an indicator of common ancestry.



Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Our bodies are not full of junk DNA
They are still. "Junk DNA remains a label for the portions of a genome sequence for which no discernible function has been identified".

Ha...Yes it remains a label perhaps,but the fact is our bodies are not filled with "junk" DNA. It was not so long ago that evolutionists claimed 98% of our DNA was "Junk...flotsam...useless.(etc)"

But science is just now discovering the design and functionality of what evolutionists called "Junk". Creationist scientists were correct...most if not virtually all non protein-coding genes are functional.


This is an exciting time to be a Christian, as science unveils the amazing design and complexity within our cells.

"The consortium has assigned some sort of function to roughly 80% of the genome, including more than 70,000 ‘promoter’ regions — the sites, just upstream of genes, where proteins bind to control gene expression — and nearly 400,000 ‘enhancer’ regions that regulate expression of distant genes. But the job is far from done, says Birney, a computational biologist at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory’s European Bioinformatics Institute in Hinxton, UK, who coordinated the data analysis for ENCODE. He says that some of the mapping efforts are about halfway to completion, and that deeper characterization of everything the genome is doing is probably only 10% finished…
The vast desert regions have now been populated with hundreds of thousands of features that contribute to gene regulation. And every cell type uses different combinations and permutations of these features to generate its unique biology. This richness helps to explain how relatively few protein-coding genes can provide the biological complexity necessary to grow and run a human being…

With thousands of cell types to test and a growing set of tools with which to test them, the project could unfold endlessly. “We’re far from finished,” says geneticist Rick Myers of the HudsonAlpha Institute for Biotechnology in Huntsville, Alabama. “You might argue that this could go on forever.”


http://www.nature.com/news/encode-the-human-encyclopaedia-1.11312


Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Life does not come from non life
Not unless you're trying to conflate abiogenesis with spontaneous generation, which are distinctly different things. Abiogenesis is alive and well.

Abiogenesis is simply an aspect of atheist beliefs which science indicates is impossible.





Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Psuedogenes do have function and purpose

Sure, in many cases vestigial biodata acquires new function, that is distinct from original function. In the case of pseudogenes they no longer code for proteins, although it is quite clear that they once did.

Again, you rely on your beliefs instead of science. Psuedogenes is a misnomer ...based on evolutionary beliefs. Evolutionists were wrong about this just as they were about junk DNA.

In 1998 Richard Dawkins said,
"Genomes are littered with nonfunctional pseudogenes, faulty duplicates of functional genes that do nothing, while their functional cousins get on with their business in a different part of the same genome. And there's lots more DNA that doesn't even deserve the name pseudogene. It, too, is derived by duplication, but not duplication of functional genes. It consists of multiple copies of junk, "tandem repeats", and other nonsense which may be useful for forensic detectives but which doesn't seem to be used in the body itself. Once again, creationists might spend some earnest time speculating on why the Creator should bother to litter genomes with untranslated pseudogenes and junk tandem repeat DNA."

Other prominjent evolutionists such as Francis Collins and Karl Giberson said that it is "not remotely plausible" that "God inserted a piece of broken DNA into our genomes."

However, over the past few years evolutionists have started shying way from using junk DNA as a proof and now they are losing pseudogenes. In the science journal RNA, a new article says:
"Pseudogenes have long been labeled as "junk" DNA, failed copies of genes that arise during the evolution of genomes. However, recent results are challenging this moniker; indeed, some pseudogenes appear to harbor the potential to regulate their protein-coding cousins. Far from being silent relics, many pseudogenes are transcribed into RNA, some exhibiting a tissue-specific pattern of activation. Pseudogene transcripts can be processed into short interfering RNAs that regulate coding genes through the RNAi pathway. In another remarkable discovery, it has been shown that pseudogenes are capable of regulating tumor suppressors and oncogenes by acting as microRNA decoys. The finding that pseudogenes are often deregulated during cancer progression warrants further investigation into the true extent of pseudogene function. In this review, we describe the ways in which pseudogenes exert their effect on coding genes and explore the role of pseudogenes in the increasingly complex web of noncoding RNA that contributes to normal cellular regulation"


The article closes with warning similar to what creationists have been saying for years not to assume that pseudogenes are "nonfunctional relics"because that has caused them to be "overlooked in the quest to understand the biology of health and disease":
RNA, Vol. 17:792-798 (2011).



Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Neandertals were intelligent
It was never a question whether Neanderthals were intelligent, the question was "how intelligent?". A question which we are still unraveling

:) If I was an evolutionist, perhaps I would like to re-write history also. But evolutionists have been proven wrong.

They did try claim Neandertals were dimwitted. Evolutionists insisted they were carnivores without any culture and incapable of speech ETC ETC... Science has proven those evolutionary claims were false.


Guardian "

Several times in the past 10 years scientists have had to rewrite the textbooks on Neanderthals, the last species of human to go extinct. Once the archetype for primitive, uncivilised behaviour, the species, illuminated through fossil excavations and lately analysis of their genome, has emerged as being not too dissimilar from our own.

Contrary to their dim-witted image Neanderthals have been found to have used tools, to have worn jewellery, and, lastly, to have interbred with our Homo sapiens ancestors to such an extent that 4% of every modern European's genome is traceable to Neanderthal origins



Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Adam and Eve were created human, and all humans are descendants from them.

You said that neanderthals were the ancestors of modern humans (homo sapiens), and you also said that Adam and Eve were the ancestors of neanderthals this means that Adam and Eve were neither Homo Sapien nor Homo Neanderthalensis, so what exactly were they?

Adam and Eve were humans from which all people groups descended. Asians ,Neandertals, Scandanavians and Pygmies result from mutations, sexual selection, natural selection etc.
 

Jukia

New member
Adam and Eve were humans from which all people groups descended. Asians ,Neandertals, Scandanavians and Pygmies result from mutations, sexual selection, natural selection etc.

Adam and Eve are from your oral mythology. Adam and Eve per your Holy Book simply did not exist. Your delusions are shared by many but remain delusions.

thanks for playing, though, you provide appropriate comic relief.
 

6days

New member
Adam and Eve are from your oral mythology. Adam and Eve per your Holy Book simply did not exist. Your delusions are shared by many but remain delusions.

thanks for playing, though, you provide appropriate comic relief.
Love you too Jukia! :)
And I enjoy your comments.

In the beginning, God created.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
So you agree that skeletal differences can not determine if something is a different species?

Determining where one species begins and another ends is achieved with higher accuracy using both genetic and morphological evidence.

That's not to say I cannot determine that this:

BlueWhale_default.jpg


and this:

bird_skeleton.jpg


are not the same species.



The difference between us and Neandertals is slight. It appears they may have been stronger. And...who knows, they may have been intellectually superior to us. They did have a slightly larger brain than us, but size isn't everything.

And the differences between Neathertals and Denisovans is slight, no?





"It had no known use" so evolutionists jumped to faulty conclusions

The faulty conclusion that it had no apparent use?




There is zero evidence of that. Its simply another false evolutionary belief...not science. Similarity /homologyis not an indicator of common ancestry.

Homology is evidence of common ancestry, especially when observed in concordance with other veins of evidence.



Ha...Yes it remains a label perhaps, but the fact is our bodies are not filled with "junk" DNA.

In the sense that our DNA is filled with sequences where no known function has been identified, it is. But as mentioned before, biodata can acquire new functions, and usually does. Vestigiality does not necessarily mean "useless".



Abiogenesis is simply an aspect of atheist beliefs which science indicates is impossible.

Abiogenesis is a scientific hypothesis on the origin of life from abiotic chemicals. It has nothing to do with atheism; you object to it perhaps because it is a boon to atheism, but that is all.






Again, you rely on your beliefs instead of science.

No, when we have an extensive genetic sequence that falls short of a protein producing gene, by a single insertion or deletion, there can be no denial that this is a gene which has been rendered incapable of protein production via that insertion or deletion. The odds of building that exact sequence from the ground up in a way that mimics a gene shy of one nucleic acid is quintessentially nil. The function is often independent of what the actual sequence is. A telomere for instance, is a repetition of nucleotides, that protects the ends of the chromosome; it doesn't matter what the precise sequence is, the fact that there is any sequence at all is what protects the genes from truncation.

In any case you are operating under a faulty assumption, that evolutionary remnants must always be useless. This is not the case. Evolution often makes new tricks from old dogs, so to speak.




:) If I was an evolutionist, perhaps I would like to re-write history also. But evolutionists have been proven wrong.

What was speculated was that neanderthals were less intelligent than modern humans, but no scientist to my knowledge has ever asserted that neanderthals had no intelligence, clearly they had some, but how much is a matter of dispute. I think you are entirely too eager to make these kind of erroneous generalizations.



They did try claim Neandertals were dimwitted. Evolutionists insisted they were carnivores without any culture and incapable of speech

I challenge you to produce any publication in a scientific journal that makes any of these assertions. I think you will find that scientists generally do not speak of their findings in any such unabashed terms.







Adam and Eve were humans from which all people groups descended. Asians ,Neandertals, Scandanavians and Pygmies result from mutations, sexual selection, natural selection etc.

Then what kind of humans were they in your view?
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
6days, you seem to be glossing over a number of inconvenient -- but important -- details.

--> Only modern humans of Asian and European descendant appear to acquired genetic sequences from neandertals. That those of African descent did not, is an inconvenient detail that you continue to gloss over. If Neaderthals were our ancestors, then all humans would share these genetic sequences, not just Eurasians.

-->Sharing a sequence of our DNA with neandertals does not make them our ancestors, nor has any of these publications suggested such.

-->More recent findings indicate that modern humans and Neanderthals may not have interbred after all making your whole argument moot, but you seem to have entirely ignored these, unsurprisingly.
 
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6days

New member
Originally Posted by*6days*
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
So you agree that skeletal differences can not determine if something is a different species?
Determining where one species begins and another ends is achieved with higher accuracy...
No...that is false. There are MANY instances of organisms being reclassified because it is not a precise science. Its known as the species problem.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problemSkeletal differences are usually not a determining factor as in the case of Bull Dogs,Great Danes and Chihuahuas, as they all are the same species.In other words the slight skeletal differences between us and Neandertals doesnt tell us anything about species.
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
"It (appendix) had no known use" so evolutionists jumped to faulty*conclusions
The faulty conclusion that it had no apparent use?
That isn't what evolutionists said, is it?They said it was a "useless" *biological remnant.*
Daedalean's_Sun said:
Homology is evidence of common ancestry, especially when observed in concordance with other veins of evidence.
That isnt science...its beliefs. I can also say that intelligently designed homologous structures are evidence of our Common Designer. *
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
..., but the fact is our bodies are not filled with "junk" DNA.
In the sense that our DNA is filled with sequences where no known function has been identified, it is.
You are using the old evolutionary beliefs, but science tells us something different.Not so many years ago, we didnt know the function or purpose of 98% of our DNA. Now we know that, that DNA does have function, although its still being studied. ENCODE had said 80% of our DNA appears to be functional, and that number may go to 100%.*Abiogenesis is simply an aspect of atheist beliefs ...[/quote]Abiogenesis is a scientific hypothesis on the origin of life from abiotic chemicals. It has nothing to do with atheism...[/quote]There isnt a shred of evidence that life came from nonlife; It is not science.Its an atheist belief. *There are two choices... life came from non life, or it came from a Life. Both are beliefs but all evidence tells us life can only come from life
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days said:
Again, you rely on your beliefs instead of science. Psuedogenes is a misnomer ...based on evolutionary beliefs. Evolutionists were wrong about this just as they were about junk DNA.In 1998 Richard Dawkins said,*"Genomes are littered with nonfunctional pseudogenes, faulty duplicates of functional genes that do nothing, while their functional cousins get on with their business in a different part of the same genome. And there's lots more DNA that doesn't even deserve the name pseudogene. It, too, is derived by duplication, but not duplication of functional genes. It consists of multiple copies of junk, "tandem repeats", and other nonsense which may be useful for forensic detectives but which doesn't seem to be used in the body itself. Once again, creationists might spend some earnest time speculating on why the Creator should bother to litter genomes with untranslated pseudogenes and junk tandem repeat DNA."*Other prominent evolutionists such as Francis Collins and Karl Giberson said that it is "not remotely plausible" that "God inserted a piece of broken DNA into our genomes."*
In any case you are operating under a faulty assumption, that evolutionary remnants must always be useless. This is not the case.
False...another of your strawmans. Nobody made such a claim. But I did quote from prominent evolutionists saying things such as "Genomes are littered with nonfunctional pseudogenes, faulty duplicates of functional genes that do nothing..."Science has been proving the evolutionists wrong. Science is beginning to discover these "psuedogenes" are functional. Dare we say they may be there by design?*RNA journal says*"Pseudogenes have long been labeled as "junk" DNA, failed copies of genes that arise during the evolution of genomes. However, recent results are challenging this moniker; indeed, some pseudogenes appear to harbor the potential*to regulate their protein-coding cousins.."
Daedalean's_Sun said:
What was speculated was that neanderthals were*lessintelligent than modern humans, but no scientist to my knowledge has ever asserted that neanderthals had no intelligence...
False...another strawman from you. Nobody has said that *anyone made such dimwitted claims as 'Neandertals had no intelligence'.What I did say..."They (evolutionists) did try claim Neandertals were dimwitted. Evolutionists insisted they were carnivores without any culture and incapable of speech ETC ETC... Science has proven those evolutionary claims were false. Most scientists now admit those claims were wrong. *EXAMPLE...."We can now move away from this view of Neanderthals as dim-witted big game hunters," Hardy (paleoanthropologist)told LiveScience."...it helps cast doubt on previous assumptions that Neanderthals lacked the abilities of modern humans to plan ahead, innovate, and communicate through language, art, and symbolism. There is a growing weight of evidence that we may have underestimated Neanderthal skills and behavior, and that they were not the lumbering, dim-witted cartoon cavemen..."http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/defy-stereotypes.html
 

6days

New member
Daedalean's_Sun said:
6days, you seem to be glossing over a number of inconvenient -- but important -- details.
Or....you possibly are using more fallacious arguments? Lets see....
Daedalean's_Sun said:
-->*Only modern humans of Asian and European descendant appear to acquired genetic sequences from neandertals. That those of African descent did not, is an inconvenient detail that you continue to gloss over. If Neaderthals were our ancestors, then all humans would share these genetic sequences, not just Eurasians.
Another of your strawman arguments. Nobody had claimed Neandertals were the ancestors to all humanity. But most people of European descent are likely a descendant of Neandertals.** *
Daedalean's_Sun said:
-->Sharing a sequence of our DNA with neandertals does not make them our ancestors, nor has any of these publications suggested such.
False. ..if I recall your links *used such words as "Neanderthals are us" and "cousins"...cousins are descendants from a common ancestor.*
Daedalean's_Sun said:
-->More recent findings indicate that modern humans and Neanderthals may not have interbred after all making your whole argument moot
Ha...it seems that not having a good argument is no hindrance to you. You can always create a strawman.Neandertal humanity does not hinge on DNA, but that is one of many evidences. *The best evidence ....the only one that ultimatly matters is Gods Word. We know that all humanity are descendants of Adam and Eve.*Science also confirms the humanity of Neandertals. They created art. They used jewelery and makeup. *Neandertals made tools. They farmed and had healthy diets. They created music. Neandertals cared for their young...and the elderly. Neandertals seemed to understand some chemistry making things such as pitch.*
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
Or....you possibly are using more fallacious arguments? Lets see....Another of your strawman arguments. Nobody had claimed Neandertals were the ancestors to all humanity. But most people of European descent are likely a descendant of Neandertals.** *False. ..if I recall your links *used such words as "Neanderthals are us" and "cousins"...cousins are descendants from a common ancestor.

The cousin itself is not the ancestor. Are your cousins your ancestors? Obviously not. And so it is with neanderthals, we share an ancestor with them, but they are not our ancestors anymore than we are theirs.


*Ha...it seems that not having a good argument is no hindrance to you.

Which is why you are about to switch yours, in 3, 2 ...

Neandertal humanity does not hinge on DNA, but that is one of many evidences. *The best evidence ....the only one that ultimatly matters is Gods Word.

And here we have it. One failed evidence and you are already appealing to faith. I seem to recall a quote you once had, something along the lines of 'Once the evolutionist starts talking about religion, he has lost the debate' (not an exact quote), I wonder if the inverse holds true as well. If the creationist starts talking about his religion, he's lost the debate. I reckon so.


We know that all humanity are descendants of Adam and Eve.

I'm sure you believe this. Belief is not knowledge. We don't know any such thing.



*Science also confirms the humanity of Neandertals. They created art. They used jewelery and makeup. *Neandertals made tools.

Homo Erectus, and Homo Habilis, also exhibit evidence of tool-making. There is evidence Homo Habilis performed ceremonial burials. Of course all of these are 'human' in that all belonged to the genus homo although distinct from anatomically modern humans. We find a range of traits we typically associate with humans, represented among their number. There is in fact a continuity stretching between modern humans and the Australopithecus in this regard, but more evidently in morphology and chronological fossil sequence.

Spoiler

foto+genero+homo+de+familia+esqueletos2.jpg
 

Lon

Well-known member
And here we have it. One failed evidence and you are already appealing to faith. I seem to recall a quote you once had, something along the lines of 'Once the evolutionist starts talking about religion, he has lost the debate' (not an exact quote), I wonder if the inverse holds true as well. If the creationist starts talking about his religion, he's lost the debate. I reckon so.

:nono: Truth is truth no matter where it comes from and you'd be an idiot (frankly) to think the scientific process is the only 'source' of it. That's really 'stupid' thinking, frankly.

On top of that? Truth stands no matter what lack or advance we might possess to apprehend it. Ever hear 'facts don't lie?' Its still true. You cannot change a fact, only what your concept of it is. As such, religion is as much a friend to science as science is to religion. They both are seeking to understand facts that do not change.

Speaking of, He is the Chief Cornerstone Ephesians 2:20.

In fact, Colossians 1:17 and John 15:5, without Him, nothing came to be or exists.

Thus, He is the unmoved/ummovable Cornerstone that will found men or cause them to stumble. He came to found men and women and remove their sinking sand. Happy Resurrection Day (Easter)! Don't stumble.
 
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