User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: One on one: Mr. 5020 & Knight

  1. #1
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775

    One on one: Mr. 5020 & Knight

    This "one on one" thread between Mr. 5020 and myself does not have a specific topic per se. Instead, their are several topics that I would like to discuss with Mr. 5020 and there may be several things Mr. 5020 wants to ask me in return.

    My first question to Mr. 5020 is . . .

    Why do you dislike Bob Enyart so much? At one point, you even stated you put him on ignore. Now I am not here to make you like Bob, yet I am intrigued as to why you have such strong feelings about him. It seems to me Bob's participation at TOL has been civil and friendly. So what did Bob do to you to make you dislike him so?

    This interests me because Bob is my pastor and my friend. His views and opinions are very similar to mine.

    Do you dislike Bob because of something Bob teaches?

    Is it his approach?

    Or did he butt in front of you in the 10 items or less lane at the grocery store?

    Thank you in advance for your time!
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  2. #2
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Wow, I had no idea this would be discussed. But it's probably the easiest of all the questions you will ask me. I seem to have very few problems with anything I've heard Bob say in the dozen or so shows I've listened to. I do have a problem with his approach. Even when he makes points that I agree with, I'm completely turned off by his show of arrogance. I can't imagine how much it pushes away those who don't agree with him.

    No, no, no...thank you.

  3. #3
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    Wow, I had no idea this would be discussed. But it's probably the easiest of all the questions you will ask me. I seem to have very few problems with anything I've heard Bob say in the dozen or so shows I've listened to. I do have a problem with his approach. Even when he makes points that I agree with, I'm completely turned off by his show of arrogance. I can't imagine how much it pushes away those who don't agree with him.
    Well all I can say in response is . . . my wife and I disagreed with Bob but our entire family came to the Lord through his show (as did my sister, her husband, their family, my dad etc.).

    So, you dislike Bob's approach, fair enough! If John the Baptist had a radio show I am guessing you would dislike his approach as well which of course is your choice. I wont pursue this issue any further.

    You have made some inquisitive comments in regard to open theism. I would like to discuss this topic with you therefore my next question is:

    Do you believe that we have a true freewill? Do you believe we can make our own choices without those choices being predetermined?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  4. #4
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Do you believe that we have a true freewill? Do you believe we can make our own choices without those choices being predetermined?
    I do believe we have a true free will. I do believe that we make our own choices, but I believe God knows what the choices will be.


    On a side note, I praise God for Bob and his ministry, and you will notice that in the last 6 months or so, I've chilled out quite a bit towards him.

  5. #5
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    I do believe we have a true free will. I do believe that we make our own choices, but I believe God knows what the choices will be.
    OK, how far in advance does God know the choices that we will make?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  6. #6
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    OK, how far in advance does God know the choices that we will make?
    Infinitely.

  7. #7
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    Infinitely.
    And how did God attain this knowledge?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  8. #8
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    And how did God attain this knowledge?
    God didn't attain this knowledge. God is omnipresent - He exists in past, present and future.

  9. #9
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    God didn't attain this knowledge. God is omnipresent - He exists in past, present and future.
    God has the knowledge. And the knowledge is of something that hasn't happened yet therefore God had to attain this knowledge in some fashion.

    Did He "peek" into the future and "see" all of history therefore attaining the knowledge?

    Or did He think the future into existence therefore ordaining all the future history?

    Or is there a third option? And if there is, can you conceptualize it?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  10. #10
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    God has the knowledge. And the knowledge is of something that hasn't happened yet therefore God had to attain this knowledge in some fashion.

    Did He "peek" into the future and "see" all of history therefore attaining the knowledge?

    Or did He think the future into existence therefore ordaining all the future history?

    Or is there a third option? And if there is, can you conceptualize it?
    Who has the future not happened to? It has not happened to us, but does that mean it has not happened? In Revelation, John saw the future right before his very eyes. How could Jesus Christ have shown John all of that without Jesus Himself knowing what would happen?

    Like I said before, God exists in the past, present, and future. He does not need to peek into the future, for He is already there.

  11. #11
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    Who has the future not happened to? It has not happened to us, but does that mean it has not happened? In Revelation, John saw the future right before his very eyes. How could Jesus Christ have shown John all of that without Jesus Himself knowing what would happen?
    Is "seeing" the future the only possible way of predicting the future?

    Which accurate prediction of the future is more impressive?

    - The man who watches the first 2/3rds of a movie and is able to deduce an accurate prediction of the end of the movie based on his present knowledge.

    - The man who has already seen the movie and tells you how the movie ends.

    Like I said before, God exists in the past, present, and future. He does not need to peek into the future, for He is already there.
    Are all points of history continually happening to God for an eternity past, present and future?

    Or, is the past in the past for God?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  12. #12
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    I promise I'll respond to all this tonight. I'm running late right now.

  13. #13
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    I promise I'll respond to all this tonight. I'm running late right now.


    "One on one" threads are intended to be low pressure.
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

  14. #14
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,370
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 65 Times in 44 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    22168
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Is "seeing" the future the only possible way of predicting the future?
    No, but seeing the future is the only way to know the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Which accurate prediction of the future is more impressive?

    - The man who watches the first 2/3rds of a movie and is able to deduce an accurate prediction of the end of the movie based on his present knowledge.

    - The man who has already seen the movie and tells you how the movie ends.
    The first one is impressive, though it is a guess. The second one, while not mind-boggling, is more assured, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Are all points of history continually happening to God for an eternity past, present and future?

    Or, is the past in the past for God?
    God knows that yesterday is what I consider the past, though He is still there. God knows that I consider tomorrow the future, yet He was, He is, and He is to come - He's already there.

  15. #15
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    26,925
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 2,335 Times in 1,100 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1097775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 5020
    No, but seeing the future is the only way to know the future.
    That simply isn't true.

    God could accurately predict the future in the following alternate two ways:

    1. God could have ordained all of the future and created beings to act out His script.

    2. God could accurately predict the future by brining events to pass, i.e., making things happen. He is after all .... God!

    Would you agree that the above two statements are both examples of other ways God could predict the future?

    The first one is impressive, though it is a guess. The second one, while not mind-boggling, is more assured, though.
    I don't think its impressive in the least for a person to predict the ending of a movie they have already seen. In fact, I hate when people spoil the endings of movies, its selfish and rude. And it most certainly doesn't demonstrate that they have used any intelligence in predicting anything. The only reason they have any knowledge of the ending is because they already saw it! Big deal!

    God knows that yesterday is what I consider the past, though He is still there. God knows that I consider tomorrow the future, yet He was, He is, and He is to come - He's already there.
    When God said . . .

    So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. - John 19:30

    Was this some type of figure of speech or was it really finished?

    Is Christ still suffering on the cross?
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us