Creation vs. Evolution

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noguru

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Eternal evolution and expansion are not possible.

Whatever is eternal must have a potential to create without something else causing it to do so, that would imply free will and intelligence--God

--Dave

Again you have made assertions, but with no support for these assertions.
 

noguru

Well-known member
Dear Hedshaker & gcthomas,

We don't need empirical evidence to find that God is logically plausible and actually real.

Michael

Who is claiming that God is not logically plausible? That is certainly not my intent. Certainly if the universe can be eternal, then there can be an eternal God as well. I am not debating these possibilities. I am simply trying to point out how Daft_Dave is not being very thorough in his analysis of these issues. And is therefore inaccurate in his claims.
 

DFT_Dave

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LIFETIME MEMBER
It is obvious that environment makes us do things. This does not remove our responsibility to follow the law.

It is obvious that murder is wrong. If a person does not respect life they have no right to force that on other people. A person that does not respect life ought to take their own life, and not that of others.

Can we refuse to do what environment is making us do?

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Generally we leave that to the courts. In that case they usually judge whether the psychological disposition is temporary and reversible (not responsible), or a permanent feature of that person's character (responsible).

Isn't that what happens in your country?

You're not answering my questions.

--Dave
 

alwight

New member
Dave, I was wondering if you found talking to sceptics here prepares you for those you might come across in your street preaching?
 

noguru

Well-known member
I was "proximately" right, that should be enough for you.

--Dave :chuckle:

Hey Dave, you are proximately a fool.

:chuckle:

If you came up to me on the street with your nonsense, I would probably laugh at how lost you really are. You are like the other side of the coin of the PETA people who came to me when I lived in Albany, NY. They had a petition to change the names of rivers from Beaver Kill, Trout Kill, Deer Kill...because they felt it promoted cruelty to animals. I said "What about the Baton Kill?" The guy looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "You don't understand." I said "No, you don't understand US history, and that upstate NY was settled by the Dutch." He left still convinced, out of his own ignorance, that he was doing the right thing.
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Again you have made assertions, but with no support for these assertions.

I have made a propositional argument, a rational proof for what is eternal on the premise that the universe is temporal.

If the premise is correct the conclusion is flawless.

--Dave
 
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noguru

Well-known member
I have made a propositional argument, a rational proof for what is eternal on the premise that the universe is temporal.

If the premise is correct the conclusion flawless.

--Dave

You might be able to fool yourself with that nonsense, but it's not working on me. You flounder with simple logic as much as you flounder with complex ideas.
 

DFT_Dave

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Dave, I was wondering if you found talking to sceptics here prepares you for those you might come across in your street preaching?

I do here pretty much what I did in Washington Square Park for three summers before I started here. I wouldn't call it preaching, debate and dialogue would be more appropriate.

I'm not here for the prep, I'm here for the test.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey Dave, you are proximately a fool.

:chuckle:

If you came up to me on the street with your nonsense, I would probably laugh at how lost you really are. You are like the other side of the coin of the PETA people who came to me when I lived in Albany, NY. They had a petition to change the names of rivers from Beaver Kill, Trout Kill, Deer Kill...because they felt it promoted cruelty to animals. I said "What about the Baton Kill?" The guy looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "You don't understand." I said "No, you don't understand US history, and that upstate NY was settled by the Dutch." He left still convinced, out of his own ignorance, that he was doing the right thing.

I didn't go up to people, I started speaking and they came to listen.

If you ever saw me speaking in Washington Square Park you probably wouldn't say anything to me.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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LIFETIME MEMBER
I guess that depends on how far you want to take that. I think we could refuse to do anything that would sustain life, but then where would we be?

If environment is all there is that determines what we do and think then there is no basis for freedom, personal responsibility, or morals.

--Dave
 

noguru

Well-known member
I didn't go up to people, I started speaking and they came to listen.

If you ever saw me speaking in Washington Square Park you probably wouldn't say anything to me.

--Dave

That is the first accurate analysis I have seen you post yet. But I have to admit that I might stop to listen for a while to see if you were being accurate. I probably would not tell you what I thought before I left. Next time I get to NY I might look you up.
 

MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear noguru,

Actually, I think Dave does quite well for himself. If I weren't so shy, I would also speak first so others could come up to listen. It has happened before at the Phoenix Public Library and my books are getting checked out there regularly. Hopefully, Jesus will return soon and neither one of you, will have to disagree. Jesus will speak out the truth about the matter instead.

In Christ's Spirit,

Michael
 

noguru

Well-known member
Dear noguru,

Actually, I think Dave does quite well for himself. If I weren't so shy, I would also speak first so others could come up to listen. It has happened before at the Phoenix Public Library and my books are getting checked out there regularly. Hopefully, Jesus will return soon and neither one of you, will have to disagree. Jesus will speak out the truth about the matter instead.

In Christ's Spirit,

Michael

Well Michael I hate to disagree with you. But I think trying to be accurate about things one is discussing is important. So I definitely think that might be an issue that Jesus' has with Dave.

On the other hand I have no problem with correction on that matter from others. So I would definitely take what Jesus had to say about my witness as well. I know I try to be as accurate as possible, but I am sure there are areas in which I could improve.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey Dave, you are proximately a fool.

:chuckle:

If you came up to me on the street with your nonsense, I would probably laugh at how lost you really are. You are like the other side of the coin of the PETA people who came to me when I lived in Albany, NY. They had a petition to change the names of rivers from Beaver Kill, Trout Kill, Deer Kill...because they felt it promoted cruelty to animals. I said "What about the Baton Kill?" The guy looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "You don't understand." I said "No, you don't understand US history, and that upstate NY was settled by the Dutch." He left still convinced, out of his own ignorance, that he was doing the right thing.


Dear noguru,

Surely you have read in Matt. 5:22, Spoken by Jesus saying, "But whosoever shall say, 'Thou fool,' shall be in danger of hell fire."

Michael
 

DFT_Dave

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LIFETIME MEMBER
You might be able to fool yourself with that nonsense, but it's not working on me. You flounder with simple logic as much as you flounder with complex ideas.

I actually prefer "flounder with baked potato".

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That is the first accurate analysis I have seen you post yet. But I have to admit that I might stop to listen for a while to see if you were being accurate. I probably would not tell you what I thought before I left. Next time I get to NY I might look you up.

Dinner on me.

--Dave
 
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