toldailytopic: Should creation be taught in public school?

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2011 09:42 AM


toldailytopic: Should creation be taught in public school?






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chrysostom

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the history of religion should be taught
and
an overview of different beliefs should be included

it has been said that history cannot be understood without some understanding of the different religions
 

Alencon

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Define what you mean by "taught."

As part of a comparative religion class, absolutely. As part of a sociology glass covering current social issues, probably, although there are other far more critical issues.

In a science classroom as science, absolutely not. It's not science. It's religion.

There is a process in the scientific community for advancing ideas and concepts. You do the research, you publish the papers and then you address questions and criticisms from EDUCATED, QUALIFIED EXPERTS IN THE FIELD.

If you've done a good job, your idea gets accepted as having merit and becomes part of the broad spectrum of scientific hypotheses.

Creationists would like to make an end run around this process and be acclaimed as a valid scientific hypothesis without doing any of the work involved. They would prefer to present unvalidated concepts and ideas rejected by the overwhelming majority of scientific experts as plausible alternatives to biological science to high school students with little or no scientific training and no significant ability to ascertain what is good science from what is bad science or pseudo-science.

To allow this would be pure stupidity. The country already ranks behind most of the industrial world in educational achievement. Let's not make it any worse.
 

Nick M

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Science should be taught. There is nothing wrong with trying to understand what God did. And you should give out two points to any malcontent that slips in creationism, instead of the creation.
 

Granite

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Agreed. As a religious concept, sure. As a scientific fact or even a "theory" to be taken seriously, absolutely not.
 

Ardima

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I believe that no world origin theories (creation or otherwise) should be taught in highschool. The public school system is paid for by the taxes of parents, and I believe that the public school system should leave beliefs of world origin theories to be taught by the parents. Children do not get a choice in what classes teach in highschool; therefore, anything that has a high contraversial status should be left out of the system, leaving either the parents to take responsibility in teaching their own children their own theories, or the child to choose classes in college that cover their subjects of interest. By the time children reach college, most have matured enough to not be taken by what they are being taught. At least in college they know what they are being taught when they register for their own classes.
 

Sherman

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toldailytopic: Should creation be taught in public school?


If you ask a non-believer the answer would be obvious. If it were taught he would winge until your ears fall off calling it a non-science.

Well what is the Big Bang, evolutionism and all the other god-less theories out there? They too are a belief system. Being an atheist or agnostic does not automatically make a person without bias. They have their own and they have taken over the educational institutions, applying their bias like a rod of iron.

Should creation be taught? Yes. If you are going to teach the big bang and evolution, then intelligent design should also be taught. The schools are already teaching a belief system--A universe without God. If you allow one then you have to allow others.
 

Tambora

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If you ask a non-believer the answer would be obvious. If it were taught he would winge until your ears fall off calling it a non-science.

Well what is the Big Bang, evolutionism and all the other god-less theories out there? They too are a belief system. Being an atheist or agnostic does not automatically make a person without bias. They have their own and they have taken over the educational institutions, applying their bias like a rod of iron.

Should creation be taught? Yes. If you are going to teach the big bang and evolution, then intelligent design should also be taught. The schools are already teaching a belief system--A universe without God. If you allow one then you have to allow others.

I agree with the premise of this.
The study of theories has always been a big part of education.
 

Rusha

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It would be fine in a discussion of religion.

Define what you mean by "taught."

As part of a comparative religion class, absolutely. As part of a sociology glass covering current social issues, probably, although there are other far more critical issues.

In a science classroom as science, absolutely not. It's not science. It's religion.

Agreed. As a religious concept, sure. As a scientific fact or even a "theory" to be taken seriously, absolutely not.

:thumb:

As long as it's taught under the category of "Comparative Religions", not a problem.
 

rexlunae

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Well what is the Big Bang, evolutionism and all the other god-less theories out there? They too are a belief system.

In this country, religion and government are separated. The same is not true of "beliefs" or "belief systems". If you want to teach religious ideas to your kids, that's fine, do it on your own time, on your own dime, not on mine. The fact is that we can explain many parts of the origin of life and the origin of the Universe without any reference to religion, making them fair game according to the laws of the land. Creation and Creationism cannot in any current rendition be taught without a religious underpinning, and therefore they are prohibited.

Being an atheist or agnostic does not automatically make a person without bias. They have their own and they have taken over the educational institutions, applying their bias like a rod of iron.

The "bias" is Constitutional, and a founding principle of our republic. The government cannot teach religion. Don't like it? Repeal the First Amendment.

The schools are already teaching a belief system--A universe without God.

That's a bald-faced lie, in the service of a religion that can't adapt to facts. The government is as prohibited from teaching godlessness as it is any other perspective. The only religious content in science is that it occasionally gives people an alternative to religious explanations for the things we see around us, which is probably why the reactionary religious are so afraid of it.
 

DavisBJ

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Well what is the Big Bang, evolutionism and all the other god-less theories out there? They too are a belief system. Being an atheist or agnostic does not automatically make a person without bias. They have their own and they have taken over the educational institutions, applying their bias like a rod of iron.

Should creation be taught? Yes. If you are going to teach the big bang and evolution, then intelligent design should also be taught. The schools are already teaching a belief system--A universe without God. If you allow one then you have to allow others.
The big bang and evolution are godless just like gravity is, and electrodynamics, and atmospheric studies, and Doppler shift phenomena. Problem is, I don’t recall the religious fundamentalists agitating for Biblical studies to be taught alongside Newton’s ideas about gravity.
 

Sherman

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The big bang and evolution are godless just like gravity is, and electrodynamics, and atmospheric studies, and Doppler shift phenomena. Problem is, I don’t recall the religious fundamentalists agitating for Biblical studies to be taught alongside Newton’s ideas about gravity.


These are not theories, beanie brain. Big difference between observable phenomena and a theory. Nobody ever observed an ape evolving into a man. That's just a theory. Before you cry foul, you walked right into that one mixing theories with observable phenomena.

I am of the opinion that they should yank evolution from the schools. It's idiot theory, turning out a bunch of nitwits thinking they are part ape. Kids are starting to act like apes. There's certainly no ape in my family tree.
 

1PeaceMaker

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2011 09:42 AM


toldailytopic: Should creation be taught in public school?






Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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Why, of course not! Children should be taught at home. ;)
 

Sherman

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Why, of course not! Children should be taught at home. ;)

That is a good idea. Public school has gone down the toilet. :comeout: Probably the reason why it has failed is because it is a public state run institution. The shaping and raising of the children should be left to the parents not the state.

My sister and her husband home schooled their five kids. The eldest is third in line in a corporation--number three man. The other kids are very bright and can think circles around public school kids. They are joy to visit with because they are learned and very polite. They are not yet old enough to choose a career path. But i am sure each one will succeed.
 

Nick M

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In this country, religion and government are separated. The same is not true of "beliefs" or "belief systems".

I think if I look hard enough, I can find where you and others that agree with you say "creationism", indicating it is a belief system. By the way, you are wrong. This was a Christian nation founded by Christians. Like John Adams in granites sig.
 

rexlunae

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These are not theories, beanie brain. Big difference between observable phenomena and a theory. Nobody ever observed an ape evolving into a man.

No one has witness apes evolving into humans, that's true. But then, no one has directly witnessed electrodynamics either, since we can't see electricity or magnetism. We've seen the effects of electrodynamics, and we've explained those effects with theory. Likewise with evolution. We witness the effects, and we explain. That's what a theory is.

I have witnessed smaller parts of evolution. It doesn't always take long periods of time.

I am of the opinion that they should yank evolution from the schools.

Of course you are.

It's idiot theory, turning out a bunch of nitwits thinking they are part ape.

Also doctors. And medical researchers of many varieties. Nitwits, all of them.

Kids are starting to act like apes.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean.

There's certainly no ape in my family tree.

That's pure denialism. It's clearly uncomfortable for you to realize that, not only were your ancestors apes, but you yourself are as well. As are all humans. You're also a primate, a mammal, a vertebrate, and an animal. These simple facts seem to bother a lot of people who wish to be more special, but that doesn't change the fact.
 

Four O'Clock

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I believe that no world origin theories (creation or otherwise) should be taught in highschool. The public school system is paid for by the taxes of parents, and I believe that the public school system should leave beliefs of world origin theories to be taught by the parents. Children do not get a choice in what classes teach in highschool; therefore, anything that has a high contraversial status should be left out of the system, leaving either the parents to take responsibility in teaching their own children their own theories, or the child to choose classes in college that cover their subjects of interest. By the time children reach college, most have matured enough to not be taken by what they are being taught. At least in college they know what they are being taught when they register for their own classes.

As a Christian, and one who respects scientific breakthroughs and accomplishments, your take might make the most sense in all this in-fighting. There is no certainty that God crafted the universe and all in it in some Biblical or other faith's way. There is also no certainty that evolution is the definitive explanation.
I'm aware that many creationists want and try to position 'intelligent design' somewhat covertly into a school's curriculum.
That being said, is even attempting to discuss a 'mover & shaker' of sorts (something Aristotle adhered to - and he's not left out of any classrooms at last look) behind the universe's beginnings fly in the face of academic teaching?
I find it amazing that, in less than 100 years, the public school's interpretation of this since the Scope's monkey trial has went completely 180 degrees!
I guess, given the division our country is currently in, it shouldn't surprise me.
I'm not pro-homeschooling unless the parent(s) has/have the knowledge and time to present a complete and objective curriculum.
But if a young student approaches his teacher and asks?..."What is the origin of the universe? Does it have any meaning? Do I have any meaning?" Does he/she simply say: "Go home and talk to your parents?". Can every parent explain the makings of a cell? Or teach applied mathematics? Or an objective view of the world's history?
Can every parent give their child a definitive religious explanation of our world?
Don't many children enter the public school system with no spiritual or religious upbringing?
I've yet to hear any rational explanation as to why a mover/shaker/God explanation is considered so academically taboo!
Not to fly in the face of evolution theory, not to position itself as fact. Simply an idea that has never been dismissed throughout the centuries. Can anyone honestly say this is corruptive and damaging to a young, seeking mind?
There are many fundamentalist, self-serving folks out there that don't understand the benefits of a good, objective education, but I see the public system as equally to blame for an almost blatant disregard of the complete picture by not welcoming, at the very least, a limited discussion of all sides of the creation picture.
 

Alate_One

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These are not theories, beanie brain. Big difference between observable phenomena and a theory.
Name calling when you yourself are totally ignorant?

A theory is an EXPLANATION of observable phenomena. That objects fall when dropped is an observation. The explanation is the theory of gravitation. That populations of organisms change over time is an observation. The explanation is the theory of evolution. Just as the Big Bang theory explains things like red shifting in distant stars. So no, these theories are not belief systems.

I am of the opinion that they should yank evolution from the schools. It's idiot theory, turning out a bunch of nitwits thinking they are part ape. Kids are starting to act like apes. There's
certainly no ape in my family tree.
Again more name calling based on ignorance. You are STILL an ape. A very strange ape, but an ape nonetheless. Do you accept you are a primate? A mammal? Why not an ape?

The lack of thinking in today's youth has nothing to do with evolution (few public schoolers are actually taught evolution properly anyway) it has far more to do with parents not caring and officials overly focusing on test score performance rather than making students think. And teaching them to enjoy thinking. Evolution demands thinking, are you opposed to having children actually understand WHY evolution is accepted scientifically?
 
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