ECT Omnipresence of Jesus

0scar

New member
Many christians do the next thinking: Jesus is God, God is omnipresent, Jesus is omnipresent.
This is a human reasoning. Human reasoning is the base principle of the gnostisism. The gnostisism start by believing that God and the truth of God can be reached by human thinking, reasoning and logic.
But human reasoning is dangerous and take us into the next thinking: If Jesus were not omnipresent, Jesus were not God, since God is omnipresent.

Trying to understan God and Jesus with the same atitude and tols of the gnostics, only get us into troubles and falceties. The falcety is that the deity of Jesus is directly conected to the fact of him being or not being omnipresent.

But the truth is that the conection between Jesus deity and Jesus omnipresence is merely a gnostic-like reasoning. Jesus being God has nothing to do with Jesus being omnipresent.

I strongly believe, out of any doubt that Jesus was (past tence refers to his time on Earth) God, completely divine.
And I know by reading the NT that Jesus was NOT omnipresent at all.

Do you have/know of any verse in the Bible stating Jesus omnipresence?
 

eameece

New member
Is that an human saying? Or we can read it in the Bible?
Does the Bible state that we can subtitute the revelation with our thinking?

The Bible was written by humans, and is interpreted by humans.

God is omnipresent.
I am connected to God, which is All.
Jesus was divine. Jesus IS divine.
Jesus, and I, and you, are omnipresent.

Knowledge experienced, not knowledge reasoned; but explained in language.
 

Jason0047

Member
Jesus has two states of being. He has a physical fleshy being (i.e. human body) and He has a divine being (In the fact that He is the Eternal Word, the Everlasting Son of God, - That is a part of the Godhead or the Trinity (1 John 5:7)). This joining of two states of being (i.e. the physical being and the spiritual being) is called the Hypostatic Union. If you want to deepen your understanding of the Hypostatic Union and it's related teaching called the Kenosis (Philippians 2:6 NLT) (Philippians 2:7 NLT) (Philippians 2:8 NLT) (Philippians 2:9 NLT), I would highly recommend watching this video here:

Hypostatic Union & the Kenosis

Yeah, but is there evidence or clues that Jesus is Omnipresent? Well, in John chapter 3: Jesus said,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13)​
Did you catch that? Jesus said He came down from Heaven (Past tense) and then He said that He is currently in Heaven (i.e. By referring to Himself as the Son of Man being up in Heaven). How is this possible? How can Jesus be up in Heaven and still be down on the Earth talking to Nicodeumus? Well, our Lord was referring to His divine Spirit (i.e. the Eternal Word) and not his physical body. For Jesus told us that He is one with the Father and that He abides in Him and vise versa. For Jesus said, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10).

Still skeptical?

Well, most people read the Bible from a self centered (ME focused) perspective. They sometimes forget WHO these words were actually spoken to. For example: I want you to imagine that you are a new wet behind the ears disciple listening to Jesus. Can you imagine that? Do you got a picture of that in your mind? Okay, so if you done that, I want you to read the following passage below from the perspective that you are this type of a disciple and you hear Jesus say these words to you (As a disciple living during that time period):

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:4-7)​
Did you catch what this passage said? You are a disciple listening to the words of Jesus and you hear him tell you that you must abide in Him and He will abide in you. He says you cannot bear fruit of yourself unless you abide in Him. This means that Jesus was teaching during His ministry that He could live within people just as He does today. For God does not change. For Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

In other words, this is why I believe the 12 disciples during Christ's ministry were spiritually regenerated and given new spiritual life (i.e. born again) by the Holy Spirit whereby Christ could live within them. For Jesus said, abide in me and abide in my words (John 15:7). Now, yes. It is true. The disciples did not have the Holy Spirit yet until Christ breathed the Holy Spirit upon them after His resurrection; But that does not mean a spiritual transformation or regeneration by the Spirit is equated with the Holy Spirit having to make their home within them yet. Jesus was their first Comforter. Hence, why Jesus said He would send them another Comforter (i.e. the Holy Spirit). So during the Earthly life of Christ, the Lord Jesus exclusively became the disciple's Comforter and He lived within them. For He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For salvation is a person named Jesus Christ. Salvation is not a super power; And Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

So while Jesus held back His divine privileges (Philippians 2:7 NLT) (i.e. the Kenosis) and relied upon the Father for everything, He was still God Almighty in the flesh and was one with the Father (Where He abides within the Father and the Father abides in Him) and Jesus was able to give eternal life to people of whom the Father had given unto Jesus. For Jesus said to the woman at the well that He had living water to give to her. Jesus said that He is the bread of life. Jesus was obviously talking in spiritual terms here. For He said, my words are spirit and they are life. Meaning that if anyone believes on His name, He gave them power to become sons of God (John 1:12, 13).
 
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Jason0047

Member
In addition, here is another clue that points to the fact that the Spirit of Jesus was Omnipresent during His Earthly life:

"Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him,

"Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"
Nathanael saith unto him,
"Whence knowest thou me?"
Jesus answered and said unto him,
"Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee."
Nathanael answered and saith unto him,
"Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."
(John 1:47-49).​
Did you catch that? Jesus said He seen Nathanael under the fig tree before Philip called him. This means that Jesus would have had no time to be able to hide behind some bushes watching Nathanael. Jesus was not following Philip. Philip was taking Nathanael to see Jesus. This is why Nathanael said Jesus was the Son of God. Because only the Son of God (i.e. God Almighty) could have the power to do something like that. For Jesus was able to see Nathanael with His Spirit. Jesus did not say He seen a vision or the Father showed Him, etc. Jesus said He seen Nathanael.
 
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0scar

New member
It is a simple truth.


You can accept it, or not.

Disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is not why I came in here.

It is a simple human "truth", and you as human can accept it or not.
I DO accept the Truth in the Bible.
We can not discuss theology in the base of human "thrutn", nobody do. No one theologist have ever base his studies in human "truth". And when they did, did arrive to terrible falceties.
 

0scar

New member
The Bible was written by humans, and is interpreted by humans.

God is omnipresent.
I am connected to God, which is All.
Jesus was divine. Jesus IS divine.
Jesus, and I, and you, are omnipresent.

Knowledge experienced, not knowledge reasoned; but explained in language.

What you are saying is that the Bible was not writen by God.
You are a excellent example of how wrong is studying theology as the gnostic did - by human thinkings -. You just say that Jesus is not a little more omnipresent that you and me are.
 

0scar

New member
Jesus has two states of being. He has a physical fleshy being (i.e. human body) and He has a divine being (In the fact that He is the Eternal Word, the Everlasting Son of God, - That is a part of the Godhead or the Trinity (1 John 5:7)). This joining of two states of being (i.e. the physical being and the spiritual being) is called the Hypostatic Union. If you want to deepen your understanding of the Hypostatic Union and it's related teaching called the Kenosis (Philippians 2:6 NLT) (Philippians 2:7 NLT) (Philippians 2:8 NLT) (Philippians 2:9 NLT), I would highly recommend watching this video here:

You are shifting the issue. Any how, the Hypostatic Union doctrine was formulated 15 Centuries ago; and still nobody has found not even a single verse supporting such a human doctrine.
 

Jason0047

Member
You are shifting the issue. Any how, the Hypostatic Union doctrine was formulated 15 Centuries ago; and still nobody has found not even a single verse supporting such a human doctrine.

There is no shifting going on here. The Spirit of Jesus is Omnipresent. Always has been, and always will be. Oh, and you can't go by what History says, either. History can be faked. For people thru out time can have their own false religions and agendas. History is not proof of anything unless you have a time machine maybe. One has to go by what the Word of God says; And the Scriptures teach that there is a Hypostatic Union. How so? Well, is Jesus God? Yes (Check). Is Jesus a man? Yes (Check). So He is both of these. It's not complicated. It is only in man made doctrines is when somebody tries to say otherwise. If you disagree, you need to show how Jesus is not God or show how Jesus was not a man (According to the Scriptures). For Jesus was equally both God and man (In His Earthly life) and He still is right now.
 

0scar

New member
Yeah, but is there evidence or clues that Jesus is Omnipresent? Well, in John chapter 3: Jesus said,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13)​
Did you catch that? Jesus said He came down from Heaven (Past tense) and then He said that He is currently in Heaven (i.e. By referring to Himself as the Son of Man being up in Heaven). How is this possible? How can Jesus be up in Heaven and still be down on the Earth talking to Nicodeumus?

Dear brother. You lack of understanding. Commencing in verse 13, it is John writting, not Jesus talking to Nicodemus. John is writting his Gospel after the ascencion (Acts 1:9-11). At the time of John writting, Jesus was in Heaven (not being in Earth) and John as all the Christians was expecting Jesus to return to Earth (where he is not). That situation of Jesus being now in Heaven and not being on Earth it is clear in Acts 1:9-11.

That situation is also clear in John 3:13. Jesus ascended to where he was not (Heaven). Jesus came down to Earth where he was not, and by coming down he did cease to be in Heaven. That is how he ascended to where he came from.

John 3 and Act 1 match. Now Jesus is in Heaven and not on Earth. Jesus never was in both places at the same time. He ascended, he came dow, always leaving a place to be in another place.
 

0scar

New member
Well, most people read the Bible from a self centered (ME focused) perspective. They sometimes forget WHO these words were actually spoken to. For example: I want you to imagine that you are a new wet behind the ears disciple listening to Jesus. Can you imagine that? Do you got a picture of that in your mind? Okay, so if you done that, I want you to read the following passage below from the perspective that you are this type of a disciple and you hear Jesus say these words to you (As a disciple living during that time period):

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:4-7)​
Did you catch what this passage said? You are a disciple listening to the words of Jesus and you hear him tell you that you must abide in Him and He will abide in you. He says you cannot bear fruit of yourself unless you abide in Him. This means that Jesus was teaching during His ministry that He could live within people just as He does today. For God does not change. For Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Beloved brother. You are deeply confused. Alow me to help you understanding.

1 Jesus, actually his Spirit, that is the Holy Spirit live inside me and you. That happens only after ascencion. Before ascencion the Holy Spirit was in not any human. Not for the years Jesus was on Earth. Because Jesus not being omnipresent can not be in himself and in somebodies else at the same time.
2 That whole teaching is for after the Passion. Jesus Christ is the vine after the Cross and the Resurrection; not before.
 

0scar

New member
In addition, here is another clue that points to the fact that the Spirit of Jesus was Omnipresent during His Earthly life:

"Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him,

"Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"
Nathanael saith unto him,
"Whence knowest thou me?"
Jesus answered and said unto him,
"Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee."
Nathanael answered and saith unto him,
"Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."
(John 1:47-49).​
Did you catch that? Jesus said He seen Nathanael under the fig tree before Philip called him. This means that Jesus would have had no time to be able to hide behind some bushes watching Nathanael. Jesus was not following Philip. Philip was taking Nathanael to see Jesus. This is why Nathanael said Jesus was the Son of God. Because only the Son of God (i.e. God Almighty) could have the power to do something like that. For Jesus was able to see Nathanael with His Spirit. Jesus did not say He seen a vision or the Father showed Him, etc. Jesus said He seen Nathanael.

Sorry brother, but if you are trying to demostrate Jesus omnipresence, that example is noncense
 

0scar

New member
There is no shifting going on here. The Spirit of Jesus is Omnipresent. Always has been, and always will be. .

The Holy Spirit is not omnipresent.
The Holy Spirit was not on Earth while Jesus was on Earth.
The Holy Spirit is in me, is in you and is in many Christians at the same time. We call that multipresence.
The Holy Spirit is not in any non-Christians. Not being in so many places is called not being omnipresente.
 

0scar

New member
There is no shifting going on here. The Spirit of Jesus is Omnipresent. Always has been, and always will be. Oh, and you can't go by what History says, either. History can be faked. For people thru out time can have their own false religions and agendas. History is not proof of anything unless you have a time machine maybe. One has to go by what the Word of God says; And the Scriptures teach that there is a Hypostatic Union. How so? Well, is Jesus God? Yes (Check). Is Jesus a man? Yes (Check). So He is both of these. It's not complicated. It is only in man made doctrines is when somebody tries to say otherwise. If you disagree, you need to show how Jesus is not God or show how Jesus was not a man (According to the Scriptures). For Jesus was equally both God and man (In His Earthly life) and He still is right now.

This is not about Hypostatic Union; but if you insist.

The HU was an attept to answer to the Monophisism. The herecy of the monophysist says that Jesus was God and human in one mix nature. Let analice it: Jesus is God, Jesus is man; monophysism is OK.

With the following centuries hundred of herecies were formulated trying to explain how Jesus was God and human. Let analys. Jesus is God, Jesus is man; all those heresies are OK.

For saying that the HU has biblical support you have to demostrate that he has two independen natures, coexisting but not mixed.
Nobody have presented a single verse in 1500 years.
 

Jason0047

Member
Dear brother. You lack of understanding. Commencing in verse 13, it is John writting, not Jesus talking to Nicodemus. John is writting his Gospel after the ascencion (Acts 1:9-11). At the time of John writting, Jesus was in Heaven (not being in Earth) and John as all the Christians was expecting Jesus to return to Earth (where he is not). That situation of Jesus being now in Heaven and not being on Earth it is clear in Acts 1:9-11.

That situation is also clear in John 3:13. Jesus ascended to where he was not (Heaven). Jesus came down to Earth where he was not, and by coming down he did cease to be in Heaven. That is how he ascended to where he came from.

John 3 and Act 1 match. Now Jesus is in Heaven and not on Earth. Jesus never was in both places at the same time. He ascended, he came dow, always leaving a place to be in another place.

No, in John 3:13, Jesus was still talking to Nicodemus. For one, in verse 17, Jesus says that He came not into the world to condemn the world but to save it. This is a parallel of what Jesus said in John 12:47. In addition, Jesus made it a point to reveal important facts from the Old Testament in relation to His plan of redemption, too. For example, Jesus related the resurrection to the story of Jonah. So it would make sense that Jesus would also relate His death upon the cross with an Old Testament story, as well; And He did. For in verse 14 in John chapter 3 he relates His death upon the cross in giving life to all with the story of the brass serpent that heals. Besides, if you were to look at a red letter edition Bible, you would see that verses 13-21 are in red.
 
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Jason0047

Member
Sorry brother, but if you are trying to demostrate Jesus omnipresence, that example is noncense

If you read the Bible literally then the most literal plain straight forward meaning of the text tells us that Jesus had seen Nathanael. Jesus did not say that the Father showed Him Nathanael or that Jesus had a vision. Jesus said HE seen Nathanael; So I believe Jesus.
 
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