What is the express image of God?

Untellectual said:

Jesus Christ was fully submitted to God.

God's promise of the Holy Spirit for us was fulfilled when Jesus ascended shortly after His resurrection. He received from the Father the promise of the Spirit, and poured forth the Spirit upon believers that Pentecost (holy) day.

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AMEN, but does it mention the spirit of Christ somewhere in the NT? And if so, would it not be pretty much the same as the one God shares with us?

I haven't done a study on this subject but it sounds reasonable to think this way.

keypurr said:

AMEN, but does it mention the spirit of Christ somewhere in the NT? And if so, would it not be pretty much the same as the one God shares with us?

I haven't done a study on this subject but it sounds reasonable to think this way.

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Here is a Bible verse that may help you:

Romans 8:9 NASB - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

keypurr said:

Dear friend, I do accept the fact there is ONE GOD and ONE Lord ,just as you do. We agree on this.

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But I don't think you have accepted that the name of the LORD was what God decided to use in order to name his created visible image.

When people saw the visible bodily form (which looks like a man - just as the Christ appeared as a man) that was created by God for his personal use ... then they had seen the presence of the LORD.

God told us exactly what people had seen at the event when he agreed to reveal his glory to Moses and to also call out ITs name as his glory passed by. God called out the name of "The LORD, the LORD God." The invisible Spirit of God was represented by a walking talking physical form that only did and said what HE wanted. This name is a great definition for the term Emmanuel ... for it explains how God was/is able to come within his own creation in a literal manner.

Jesus the Christ said the same sort of things about himself, when he told people things like these:
I only say what the Father tells me ... if you don't believe what I say about who I am then look at the works I do...

Untellectual said:

God's Spirit is different from Jesus, though I believe Jesus had the Holy Spirit dwelling in Him. Now I need to discover if that is true.

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Hi Untellectual,
Read John3: 34, 35and grasp the full meaning of what is said succinctly. After you do ... you will realize that our Lord was God.
quote:
For he (Lord Jesus the Christ) whom God hath sent speaketh the (very) words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure to him.
The Father (known as the LORD God in the OT) loveth the Son (known as the Lord Jesus in the NT) and hath given ALL THINGS into his hands.

Now, if our Lord Jesus the Christ was said to speak the very words of God and to have at his finger tips ALL THINGS from God ... then just how much more equal could he have been?

Later, we are told another important detail. Our Lord Jesus had come bearing the very image that personally belonged only to God. And image that he had said HE would share with no other. An image named LORD, the LORD God.

Colossians 1:15-17
(Our Lord Jesus) who is the image of the invisible God, (that image being) the first born of every creature.

For by Him (being the ONE God appearing as LORD) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, the visible and the invisible, ... all things were created by Him (as the LORD God as Father) and for Him (as the LORD the Savior).
And he (Our God as LORD) is before all things, and by Him (Our God and LORD) all things consist.

Ps82 said:

Hi Untellectual,
Read John3: 34, 35and grasp the full meaning of what is said succinctly. After you do ... you will realize that our Lord was God.
quote:
For he (Lord Jesus the Christ) whom God hath sent speaketh the (very) words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure to him.
The Father (known as the LORD God in the OT) loveth the Son (known as the Lord Jesus in the NT) and hath given ALL THINGS into his hands.

Now, if our Lord Jesus the Christ was said to speak the very words of God and to have at his finger tips ALL THINGS from God ... then just how much more equal could he have been?

Later, we are told another important detail. Our Lord Jesus had come bearing the very image that personally belonged only to God. And image that he had said HE would share with no other. An image named LORD, the LORD God.

Colossians 1:15-17
(Our Lord Jesus) who is the image of the invisible God, (that image being) the first born of every creature.

For by Him (being the ONE God appearing as LORD) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, the visible and the invisible, ... all things were created by Him (as the LORD God as Father) and for Him (as the LORD the Savior).
And he (Our God as LORD) is before all things, and by Him (Our God and LORD) all things consist.

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I believe Jesus to be the Son of YHVH.

Untellectual said:

I believe Jesus to be the Son of YHVH.

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Ah yes ... and good ... but do you grasp how the Father and the Son are the ONE God... how God managed to accomplish this?

Ps82 said:

Ah yes ... and good ... but do you grasp how the Father and the Son are the ONE God... how God managed to accomplish this?

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I think you force yourself to believe in an elaborate arrangement, and though I am uncertain of some details I am very particular about words... because they betray underlying beliefs. I want to go with what scripture says.

I know there is one God, YHVH. I know Jesus, the Son of God, is one with His Father.

Untellectual said:

I think you force yourself to believe in an elaborate arrangement, and though I am uncertain of some details I am very particular about words... because they betray underlying beliefs. I want to go with what scripture says.

I know there is one God, YHVH. I know Jesus, the Son of God, is one with His Father.

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I only write about what I comprehend within scripture... context is as important as words ... because quite often words can have multiple definitions and it is the context that determines the correct use of a meaning.

Ps82 said:

But I don't think you have accepted that the name of the LORD was what God decided to use in order to name his created visible image.

When people saw the visible bodily form (which looks like a man - just as the Christ appeared as a man) that was created by God for his personal use ... then they had seen the presence of the LORD.

God told us exactly what people had seen at the event when he agreed to reveal his glory to Moses and to also call out ITs name as his glory passed by. God called out the name of "The LORD, the LORD God." The invisible Spirit of God was represented by a walking talking physical form that only did and said what HE wanted. This name is a great definition for the term Emmanuel ... for it explains how God was/is able to come within his own creation in a literal manner.

Jesus the Christ said the same sort of things about himself, when he told people things like these:
I only say what the Father tells me ... if you don't believe what I say about who I am then look at the works I do...

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I see LORD as God and Lord as his son.

I see God creating his son and giving him power.

I see God providing a body for his son to dwell in, Jesus is that body.

I see one God who is greater than the son he created and is the only true God.

I believe that no one has seen God or can see him, but they can see his agents.

His agents would be considered as god to us.

However I believe that God himself was not sent as Jesus. His spiritual son Christ was.


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keypurr

I see LORD as God and Lord as his son.

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Both the Father and the Son were God appearing as the created image named LORD.

I see God creating his son and giving him power.

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God created the image ... the Son was God ... only doing and saying what God would say and do. Having all things given unto him from the Spirit of God.

I see God providing a body for his son to dwell in, Jesus is that body.

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Yes ... Only I like to say that God was associated with the created bodily form ... because how can anyone put God in a finite box. Yet, for human comprehension I do not mind saying that the WORD of God who was God dwelt in that body.

I see one God who is greater than the son he created and is the only true God.

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The Bible never says that God created his son... it does say that God created the image. The Bible says that God is the Savior and besides HIM there is no savior.

I believe that no one has seen God or can see him, but they can see his agents.

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Then what do you say about Exodus 24?
I agree that no one can see spirit, but they could see the image God created and this image was associated with God in the minds of men.

His agents would be considered as god to us.

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Yes, but Jesus was considered God.

However I believe that God himself was not sent as Jesus. His spiritual son Christ was.

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Scripture says differently. Isaiah 43:11 says that God was to be the only Savior. John 1 says that The WORD who was God and simultaneously was with God came as the Savior.
Manifested in flesh for the first time ever. It was the first time ever that anyone had seen God the begotten Son.

That truth does not say that no one had ever seen God the Father.

Ps82 said:

keypurr



Both the Father and the Son were God appearing as the created image named LORD.



.

God created the image ... the Son was God ... only doing and saying what God would say and do. Having all things given unto him from the Spirit of God.





Yes ... Only I like to say that God was associated with the created bodily form ... because how can anyone put God in a finite box. Yet, for human comprehension I do not mind saying that the WORD of God who was God dwelt in that body.







The Bible never says that God created his son... it does say that God created the image. The Bible says that God is the Savior and besides HIM there is no savior.





Then what do you say about Exodus 24?

I agree that no one can see spirit, but they could see the image God created and this image was associated with God in the minds of men.





Yes, but Jesus was considered God.







Scripture says differently. Isaiah 43:11 says that God was to be the only Savior. John 1 says that The WORD who was God and simultaneously was with God came as the Savior.

Manifested in flesh for the first time ever. It was the first time ever that anyone had seen God the begotten Son.



That truth does not say that no one had ever seen God the Father.

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The Bible does say that God created his son. If his son Christ is the exact image of God there had to be a God before there was an image of. It also tells us that God created ALL through his son. His son is the firstborn of ALL creation. Name me any IMAGE that is not a creation. You can't my friend for ALL images are creations. Therfor, God created his spiritual son, the son he sent to dwell in his flesh son Jesus. Jesus came to be when he was born but Christ was at the creation. He had the fullness of his father, he is a god, BUT not the most high God.

No one has seen the father except the one who came down from the father. I believe Jesus.

The only time they could see Christ is after he entered Jesus at his anointing.

Content my friend, we can reason with the words to see truth.


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Ps82 said:

I only write about what I comprehend within scripture... context is as important as words ... because quite often words can have multiple definitions and it is the context that determines the correct use of a meaning.

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For Jesus to be sent, for example. Jesus was always right. He was a righteous man. He was a prophet. Not only the only begotten Son of God. He is Lord and Savior. And to be sent means He came to us from God. And there were prophets before Him sent by God. But they did not come down from heaven. So there is something here I don't fully understand.

Untellectual said:

For Jesus to be sent, for example. Jesus was always right. He was a righteous man. He was a prophet. Not only the only begotten Son of God. He is Lord and Savior. And to be sent means He came to us from God. And there were prophets before Him sent by God. But they did not come down from heaven. So there is something here I don't fully understand.

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Yes, all those things are true ... and understanding how an invisible Spiritual God sent into the world A Father and A Son hinges around understanding that God created an image for his personal use and used IT.

When I saw this there were so many things within scripture that began to make sense.

Hi keypurr,

The Bible does say that God created his son.

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The Bible says that inner invisible spiritual nature of the Savior (which you refer to as the Christ) was said to be "The WORD ... who was God. I agree with you that God created the outer visible bodily form (aka God's image) which people did see.

I might agree with you that when the Spirit of God anointed him at his baptism that the full measure of the Spirit of God was finally given to the Savior. You see, I have found in scripture that God can impart measures of his spiritual nature unto creatures... Like pouring more water into a glass... the spirit can flow from God to those he wishes to anoint. But Scripture as I've shown you says that the Savior had all things from God and of His spirit without measure.

You wrote:

If his son Christ is the exact image of God there had to be a God before there was an image of.

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I agree in two ways:
First, before all things there was God. God is an invisible Spiritual.
Two, before a son Christ could come in the image of God there had to have been an original image in the first place.
Your wrote:

It also tells us that God created ALL through his son. His son is the firstborn of ALL creation. Name me any IMAGE that is not a creation.

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I believe that all images are created ... for out of God's invisible nature HE brought forth visible images for things.

As far all things being created through the Son who was the WORD of God who was God ... Remember I've shown you verses in John where Jesus revealed within an oral prayer that he being the WORD and the Father had shared God's image even before the world was.

You can't my friend for ALL images are creations. Therfor, God created his spiritual son, the son he sent to dwell in his flesh son Jesus.

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According to Colossians 1 God created all things and all things consist of HIM. God created / manifested visible things but God allocated measures of His own spirit unto created beings. You and I only have a small measure of God's spirit in us... just enough to make us living creatures ... but the spirit of God was given without measure unto to the Son ... all things of God were given to him. The terms - all things of God and given without measure means that the Son was spiritually equal with the God.

You and I need an additional measure of God's Spirit and that is what Jesus said he was able to give to those who chose him as Lord. He explained this to the woman at the well. Even when we received our measure of eternal life with a new body ... we will not be equal to God the way Jesus was.

Jesus came to be when he was born but Christ was at the creation. He had the fullness of his father, he is a god, BUT not the most high God.

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There you go again mixing truth with misunderstanding. Yes, the son of God entered into this world through the natural doorway of woman's womb... but he had no earthly Father. God himself was the originator of the physical form of Jesus. God had his purposes for bringing forth the Savior in this manner. I assume that it had something to do with manifesting his form named LORD of flesh instead of IT being a super-natural angelic form.

Yes the invisible spiritual nature of the Savior (who you like to refer to as the Christ) is God... but then you mention a second God that you called the most high God. Now, which is it Keypurr: Is there only ONE God or are there two God's

You suggest:

No one has seen the father except the one who came down from the father. I believe Jesus.

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Remind me of that verse so I can address it more thoroughly. I'll bet I can explain it to show it fits my conclusions.

The only time they could see Christ is after he entered Jesus at his anointing.

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Well, if the Christ is the invisible spiritual nature of God as you like to say, then no one ever saw the Christ.
But they did see the body of Jesus that represented the spirit of God in a visible manner before the eyes of men.

Think about these things for a moment.
To you, I am sort of like a spiritual being ... because you know I exist, but you can't see me. This is because of God having given me a measure of his life and knowledge I am a spiritual being that lives and thinks.

Yet, I am also a visible creature because God created a way for me to have a bodily form. As a human being descending from Adam God says that I bear the likeness of HIS OWN image. Gen. 2

I am, at least, a two fold being ... invisible spirit and visible creature.

So it was with the Son of God ... but he all of God's spirit and all things of God associated with his bodily form.

You like to say that his inner spirit is God and is called Christ.
Well, I agree with you concept about this.

But you fail to see that the outer appearance of the Savior was also the image belonging to God ... named LORD ... which God had finally manifested in a fleshly form. The Savior looked exactly like the Father's presence ... except for the lesser glory from having a fleshly body.

The savior was God and LORD ... as said in Isaiah 43:11

Ps82 said:

Yes, all those things are true ... and understanding how an invisible Spiritual God sent into the world A Father and A Son hinges around understanding that God created an image for his personal use and used IT.

When I saw this there were so many things within scripture that began to make sense.

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God Jesus' Father and ours was not sent into the world. But the Son of God was sent by the Father into the world.

Untellectual said:

God Jesus' Father and ours was not sent into the world. But the Son of God was sent by the Father into the world.

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God came into the world in the form of his own Son. When Jesus to the religious Jewish leaders that he was the Son of God, they instantly know that he was claiming to be God ... equal to God.

Watch their conversation: Part one
John 10:29, he 30, 31,32, 33
And "I (the Lord Jesus the Son of God) give unto them (my sheep) eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck, them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are ONE."

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Jesus answered them, "Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"

The Jews answered him, saying: "For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God."


John 10: 36,37,38,39 Part two - The conversation continues
(Jesus said these things about himself)" Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, you blasphemest: because I said, I am the Son of God?
If I do not the works of my Father, (then) believe me not. (Of course he did divine miracles like the Father)
But If I do (His miracles), though you believe not me (not what I say, at least,) believe the works (I do): that ye may know (comprehend), and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (IOW, they are the ONE God as he stated before.)

(The Jews responded to what he had told them) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand (before they could stone him for claiming to be the Son of God who was God).

Ps82 said:

God came into the world in the form of his own Son. When Jesus to the religious Jewish leaders that he was the Son of God, they instantly know that he was claiming to be God ... equal to God.

Watch their conversation: Part one
John 10:29, he 30, 31,32, 33
And "I (the Lord Jesus the Son of God) give unto them (my sheep) eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck, them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are ONE."

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Jesus answered them, "Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"

The Jews answered him, saying: "For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God."


John 10: 36,37,38,39 Part two - The conversation continues
(Jesus said these things about himself)" Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, you blasphemest: because I said, I am the Son of God?
If I do not the works of my Father, (then) believe me not. (Of course he did divine miracles like the Father)
But If I do (His miracles), though you believe not me (not what I say, at least,) believe the works (I do): that ye may know (comprehend), and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (IOW, they are the ONE God as he stated before.)

(The Jews responded to what he had told them) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand (before they could stone him for claiming to be the Son of God who was God).

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I believe I have said something like this before... that God did not send Himself, His Son was sent of Him.

Untellectual said:

I believe I have said something like this before... that God did not send Himself, His Son was sent of Him.

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Yes, but scripture does not support your statement as I have shown you above. God came as the Savior as he said he would.

Isaiah 43:11
I (the ONE God) even I AM the LORD, beside ME (as God and LORD) there is no savior.

Ps82 said:

Yes, but scripture does not support your statement as I have shown you above. God came as the Savior as he said he would.

Isaiah 43:11
I (the ONE God) even I AM the LORD, beside ME (as God and LORD) there is no savior.

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God who is our Savior sent His Son to be our Savior.

Untellectual said:

God who is our Savior sent His Son to be our Savior.

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Well, I like that statement better ... but it still leaves out that the Son was God ... just as he claimed to be ... which made the Jews angry because they understood what he was claiming, but they didn't believe him or his works.