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Thread: One on One: beanieboy's questions get answered.

  1. #46
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    Beanieboy didn't think beanieboy was saved.
    Frankly, that's one of the reasons I question if there is anything to be saved from.

    Questioning if someone is a real christian, and not looking for the fruits of the Spirit, - kindness, gentleness, joy, slow to anger, and simply going by ones own judgements is simply self righteous, and disgusts me.
    beanieboy the fruits of the spirit are not dispensed blindly.

    Lets examine what I am saying . . .

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    As a practicing homosexual you fall into the above category.

    The very next verse describes the fruits of the spirit...
    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

    So you see, even though you may exhibit behavior at times that is the same as the fruit of the spirit it doesn't nullify the fact that you fit into the descriptions in the previous verses.

    Make sense?

    In other words.... even a murdering pedophile is usually described by his neighbors as "the nicest guy on the block".

    o, getting a bad rep for staying where I'm not wanted is a false bad rep?
    I don't care about the bad rep itself.
    I just want to be clear.
    I haven't bad repped you (especially recently) so I am not sure what you are referring to.

    I'm going to log off for today.
    I appreciate you taking your time.
    However, being accused of having never accepted Jesus, especially for how religious and spiritual I have always been, I found highly offensive. And you will notice that I was not offended for what you say of me now, but for judging me then, which I believe was done unjustly.
    I'm unsure why it offended me so much, but it felt like it wasn't just me, but something else within me.
    You are offended that I care enough for you to fight for your eternal destiny?

    Let me make one thing clear beanieboy . . . if I really hated you I would be apathetic about your destructive lifestyle.

    Leviticus 19:17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.
    Last edited by Knight; May 10th, 2005 at 09:13 PM.
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    No.
    I was offended that you made a judgement about me in my youth based on who I am now.
    You refer to lust, and suggest that I was lustful at 4, or 6, or 10, or 12.

    I tell you that since my youth I have talked to God. You say "so what"?
    I tell you that I have accepted Jesus half a dozen times. You say, "so what"?

    So, either admit that you don't believe in OSAS, or admit you do, and realize that I am saved.

    But do NOT judge me from my youth. You have no right to judge my relationship with God.
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    btw:
    I Cor 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people from inheriting the Kingdom of God. One has been variously translated as effeminate, homosexuals, or sexual perverts. The original Greek text reads malakoi arsenokoitai. The first word means soft; the meaning of the second word has been lost. [For further discussion of arsenokoitai visit Dr. Rembert Truluck's site.] It was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute (as in the verses from the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament described above). The early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. From the time of Martin Luther, it was interpreted as referring to masturbation . More recently, it has been translated as referring to homosexuals . Each Translator seem to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves of and use it in this verse.[1]

    I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10

    It is amazing the number of times that you will see the word "sodomite" or "homosexual" or "pervert" in different translations concerning this text. It is amazing because no one knows exactly what the words of the original text mean! The layperson, unfortunately, has no way of knowing that interpreters are guessing as to the exact meaning of these words. Pastors and laypersons often have to rely upon the authority of those who have written lexicons (dictionaries explaining the meaning of words) of Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words. The authors of scriptural lexicons search for the meaning of the word within the scriptures themselves and also go outside of scripture and research literature written around the same time the scriptures were written. If the interpreter is already prejudiced against homosexuality they can translate these words as condemning homosexual sex even based upon little usage of that word in the Scriptures and little if any contemporaneous usage of that word.

    The truth is that the word some translators "transform" into "sodomite/homosexual/pervert" in I Corinthians 6:9-10 is actually TWO words. Some translators combine them because they "think" they go together but they DO NOT KNOW. This uncertainty is reflected in the fact that other translators keep the words separate and translate them "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind".

    The two words in the original Greek are "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai". Malakoi is a very common Greek word. It literally means "soft". It is used in Matthew 11:7-18 and Luke 7:24-25 in reference to soft clothing. Scholars have to look at material outside of the Bible in order to try and figure out just what this means. The early church Fathers used the word to mean someone who was "weak" or "soft" in their morals and from the time of the reformation to the 20th century it was usually interpreted as masturbation. In Greek this word never is applied to gay people or homosexual acts in general. "No new textual data effected the twentieth-century change in translation of this word: only a shift in popular morality. Since few people any longer regard masturbation as the sort of activity which would preclude entrance to heaven, the condemnation has simply been transferred to a group still so widely despised that their exclusion does not trouble translators or theologians." (See Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980, page 105-107) "Arsenokoitai" is discussed in the next section as it is found here and in I Timothy 1:8-11.

    Note: Greek contained no word which compares to the English noun "homosexual" meaning someone of homosexual orientation. In fact the word "homosexual" (meaning someone of homosexual orientation) was not even coined until the late 1800'S by German psychologists, and introduced into English only at the beginning of the 1900's. (See Christianity, Social Tolerance, and homosexuality, John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980, page 42) However, during scriptural times there were a number of Greek words to describe homosexual sex acts and the two words "malakois" and "arsenokoitai" do not appear among them (on "arsenokoitai" see Boswell, pp 345-346.) [2]

    Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality

    Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
    This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright Jan. 7, 1998
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    btw:
    I Cor 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people from inheriting the Kingdom of God. One has been variously translated as effeminate, homosexuals, or sexual perverts. The original Greek text reads .....
    beanie your source is in error.

    Some people claim that Paul was mistranslated in Corinthians however the first part of Romans blows that claim out of the water....

    Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    I don't think there is any question as to what Paul was saying in the above verse, do you?

    Paul continues...
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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    You can't say that the source is in error, and then move on to another verse.
    You have to examine each of the verses individually, and then look at them together, with the information that you have found.

    But it is true that it translates to "soft". Some versions of the bible say "effeminate." This one says homosexual. That's a huge difference, wouldn't you say?
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    No.
    I was offended that you made a judgement about me in my youth based on who I am now.
    You refer to lust, and suggest that I was lustful at 4, or 6, or 10, or 12.

    I tell you that since my youth I have talked to God. You say "so what"?
    The devil talked with God all the time does that mean the devil is saved?

    Talking with God means very little. What is important is the side you choose to be on.

    I tell you that I have accepted Jesus half a dozen times. You say, "so what"?

    So, either admit that you don't believe in OSAS, or admit you do, and realize that I am saved.
    beanie anyone can claim they have accepted Jesus into their heart but that doesn't make it so.

    Its possible that you did accept Christ with a pure heart at some point in the past but based on your complete rejection of God I prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not saved. If I am wrong.... praise the Lord!

    But do NOT judge me from my youth. You have no right to judge my relationship with God.
    Actually, I have every right.

    Jesus said.... You will know them by their fruits.

    He didn't say . . . you will know them if they are a fruit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    You can't say that the source is in error, and then move on to another verse.
    Yes I can, and I did.

    Did you read the Romans chapter?

    There is simply no mistake about it.

    You can choose to live in the dark if you prefer but you are only fooling yourself and no one else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    The very next verse describes the fruits of the spirit...
    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

    So you see, even though you may exhibit behavior at times that is the same as the fruit of the spirit it doesn't nullify the fact that you fit into the descriptions in the previous verses.
    [/b]
    I would have to argue that I exhibit the fruits of the spirit, that either shows that I am saved and may not know it, or don't need God, because I display them on my own. I doubt the later.

    But as I indicated on another thread, the "fruit of the spirit" is kind of vague.
    It is loving to mock someone.
    Is that kind? Is it gentle?
    Are Clete's posts, for example, goodness, or longsuffering, or displays of self control?

    Clete will rationalize his behavior, though. I hate you because I love you, to short hand it.
    I mock you because I care. I tell you that your whole life disgusts me because I love you, and want you to move out of your sin.

    What's next? I love you, so I have to kill you? It's pretty lame.

    btw - "not a fruit"?

    Are the cheap shots necessary?
    I haven't been serving them to you, I would appreciate if you could do the same.
    Thanks.
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    Yes I can, and I did.

    Did you read the Romans chapter?

    There is simply no mistake about it.

    You can choose to live in the dark if you prefer but you are only fooling yourself and no one else.
    Stay on the first verse, and then we will move on to Romans. Agreed?
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    The devil talked with God all the time does that mean the devil is saved?

    Talking with God means very little. What is important is the side you choose to be on.

    beanie anyone can claim they have accepted Jesus into their heart but that doesn't make it so.
    I see. So, the devil tempting God, or saying that he wanted to have a contest with Job, is the same as 4 year old beanie asking God what happens when we die, or being 8, and asking God how I could be the apple of his eye, like David.

    Then you doubt whether Jesus actually came into my heart when I asked him?

    Man, you are above reproach.
    I didn't realize that you would be on the throne on Judgement day.

    The bottomline is - if anyone leaves the fold, they were never a christian in the first place.
    That is simply not true.

    The lost sheep?
    The prodigal son?

    well, the sheep was NEVER really in the fold, and the son was never REALLY the son of the Father.
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    Stay on the first verse, and then we will move on to Romans. Agreed?
    Why? That would be silly! The Romans verse proves beyond any doubt that homosexuality is sinful.

    When the answer can be found so easily why obfuscate by overlooking it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    I see. So, the devil tempting God, or saying that he wanted to have a contest with Job, is the same as 4 year old beanie asking God what happens when we die, or being 8, and asking God how I could be the apple of his eye, like David.

    Then you doubt whether Jesus actually came into my heart when I asked him?

    Man, you are above reproach.
    I didn't realize that you would be on the throne on Judgement day.

    The bottomline is - if anyone leaves the fold, they were never a christian in the first place.
    That is simply not true.

    The lost sheep?
    The prodigal son?

    well, the sheep was NEVER really in the fold, and the son was never REALLY the son of the Father.
    beanie spare me the drama OK?

    Let's cut to the chase....

    Are you satisfied that you are saved, your sin is forgiven and will spend eternity in heaven?
    Last edited by Knight; May 11th, 2005 at 10:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    beanie spare me the drama OK?

    Let's cut to the chase....

    Are you satisfied that you are saved, your sin is forgiven and will spend eternity in heaven?
    I'm not the one that stated that one can't lose salvation.
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanieboy
    I'm not the one that stated that one can't lose salvation.
    beanie you can't lose something you never had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight
    beanie you can't lose something you never had.
    Think what you want. Judge it the way you want.
    If Jesus does come into our heart when asked, I had asked once.
    If you believe in OSAS, then I am saved - no matter what you say.

    I won't discuss whether I was once christian or not, and I ask God to forgive your arrogance to place judgement on me when you didn't know me, but also betraying the God you serve in saying that I was never saved, when I had asked with a clear heart.

    I will ignore all future posts judging my sincerety of my beliefs, and being christian in my youth.
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

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