Justice. We know you hate it.
I'm not the One in charge of giving out grace and if I were, who are you to say I wouldn't?
Therefore, something. :idunno:
Easy. I haven't murdered anyone.
Nothing about not executing murderers either.
Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large
- Thread starter Alate_One
- Start date
Easy. I haven't murdered anyone.
Nope. Are you going to keep making things up?
Nothing about not executing murderers either.
I don't know how you could read the three passages I gave you and interpret them that they mean to execute someone.
Some how you have translated "bless them" into "kill them"
Alate_One
Well-known member
Oh? I'm not necessarily opposed to the death penalty in every case especially this one. However I think it is mostly used unfairly in the USA.
Who said I want to set every murderer loose? That doesn't mean you have to kill everyone that murders either. FYI life in prison is cheaper than execution.
You do lack mercy. You've apparently failed to actually read and understand the scriptures.
Perhaps you forget, King David, a murderer and adulterer was called a man after God's own heart.
Paul participated in the murder of Christians and yet he became an incredibly important apostle.
| 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. |
I Timothy 1
By your accounting they should both be dead.
Nope. I asked you to support your assertion that the Bible says murderers are not to be executed.
Your verses did not do that.
Pretending your failure shows that I do not accept those verses is just pain stupid.
I take it you do not have a verse that shows murderers should not be executed.
Alate_One
Well-known member
There's a parable to that effect.
Matthew 18
| 23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27 And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30 But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” |
Alate_One
Well-known member
Great. Alate wants people who do not repay debts tortured.
What part of the word "parable" do you not understand? All of it apparently. :dizzy:
It was lack of forgiveness that led to torture in the story. Of course parables aren't meant to be taken literally, it's a story to make a point.
If you want to agree with me, you should stop arguing. :up:
:darwinsm:
You deny that "six days" could mean what it plainly says, so we can safely ignore your opinions and accusations concerning scripture.
And yet he was a special exception from what? That's right, the death penalty.
Therefore, something. :idunno:
They are both dead.
lain:
Great. When you have something that shows murderers should not be executed, let us know.
You don't have a verse that says they should be executed unless you look to the old covenant.
The old covenant isn't in place today.
What part of "bless those who persecute you" do you not understand?
Funny how you guys go on and on about how only the gospel Paul preached is for you, but then at the same time you completely do the opposite of what the Apostle Paul says.
There's apparently no hope for Stripe.
He wants to be an executioner.
He thinks executions equal justice.
There's that Confederate Flag again.
That Dylan Roof was really into his "Southern Heritage":
That Dylan Roof was really into his "Southern Heritage":
Alate_One
Well-known member
You were the one putting words in my mouth. Mercy doesn't need to be divorced from justice. But you want one without the other. And Christ told us this:
| 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? |
No apparently we can all safely ignore anything you say concerning scripture since you fail to recognize or espouse the forgiveness and love of Christ.
| 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. 10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. |
No kidding. But you're spouting anger when you should be interested in the man's eternal state, regardless of what he did. Your words aren't showing any evidence of love. You, as a sinner saved by the grace of God, are in no position to rage against the actions of another. Anger is a natural reaction, but the Christian is called to better.
See what, Henry Gerecke, the minister sent to the Nazis at Nuremberg did.
You said immediately after and painfully, obviously both did a lot after the murders. But hey, I'm sure you'll continue to be woodenly literal for comedic effect.They are both dead.
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
This is the point where I realise you are a mocker not a fool.
You know what that parable means because your IQ's over 90( i'm guessing a good way over ).
You also know that Alan wasn't making the point you claimed he was.
You also choose to avoid making any serious comment on the parable, because you know what it means and why its relevant.
I assume the point you alluded to but were not brave enough to state openly, is that there is a difference between how we personally choose to forgive those who wrong us and the action of the law in relation to murder.
Which has validity and could be well argued if you choose to.
However you avoid the wider point, grace received should lead to grace extended.
I see no evidence of this in you or many other followers of Mad, or the Alan Partridge wannabe who teaches it.
State cannot extend grace to murders and protect the rest of society responsibly in its role. However those on the Christian right who constantly bay for blood seem to ignore a Saviour who
said he came to bring life
said he didn't come to condemn the world
did not condemn the woman caught in adultery
forgave the executed prisoner next to him
told us to love not hate
instructed us to forgive and not seek revenge
I don't see any of those aspects of the character of Christ in your arguments or positions.
You know what that parable means because your IQ's over 90( i'm guessing a good way over ).
You also know that Alan wasn't making the point you claimed he was.
You also choose to avoid making any serious comment on the parable, because you know what it means and why its relevant.
I assume the point you alluded to but were not brave enough to state openly, is that there is a difference between how we personally choose to forgive those who wrong us and the action of the law in relation to murder.
Which has validity and could be well argued if you choose to.
However you avoid the wider point, grace received should lead to grace extended.
I see no evidence of this in you or many other followers of Mad, or the Alan Partridge wannabe who teaches it.
State cannot extend grace to murders and protect the rest of society responsibly in its role. However those on the Christian right who constantly bay for blood seem to ignore a Saviour who
said he came to bring life
said he didn't come to condemn the world
did not condemn the woman caught in adultery
forgave the executed prisoner next to him
told us to love not hate
instructed us to forgive and not seek revenge
I don't see any of those aspects of the character of Christ in your arguments or positions.
Great. Alate wants people who do not repay debts tortured.
It appears that there will be a renewed effort to take down the bloody confederate flag from the state capital in South Carolina.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/s-c...alling-for-confederate-flag-to-be-taken-down/
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/right-finally-ready-turn-confederate-flag
It's too bad that he waited until racism killed his friend and colleague, but good on Rep. Norman "Doug" Brannon for taking what has to be a difficult stand. Maybe some good, some progress can come of this horrible incident.
In other news, a manifesto believed to have been written by the shooter has been discovered. I hesitate to publicize it, but I offer it for anyone who still thinks race isn't the driver of his actions. Warning: blatant racism and bigotry abound:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/alleged-charleston-shooter-dylann-roof-manifesto-racist
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/s-c...alling-for-confederate-flag-to-be-taken-down/
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/right-finally-ready-turn-confederate-flag
It's too bad that he waited until racism killed his friend and colleague, but good on Rep. Norman "Doug" Brannon for taking what has to be a difficult stand. Maybe some good, some progress can come of this horrible incident.
In other news, a manifesto believed to have been written by the shooter has been discovered. I hesitate to publicize it, but I offer it for anyone who still thinks race isn't the driver of his actions. Warning: blatant racism and bigotry abound:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/alleged-charleston-shooter-dylann-roof-manifesto-racist
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drbrumley
Well-known member
Earth to Granite, in these United States of America. Learn some history before opening mouth and inserting foot.
drbrumley
Well-known member
How is the Swastika any different from the Dixie Flag?
They go hand-in-hand with White Supremacy groups:
Is that a fact? Nazis are in direct opposition to what the Confederacy was. Your lack of history comprehension is astounding to say the least. But surely not surprising.
For your edification:
drbrumley
Well-known member
Evolutionists: Whining about a flag while ignoring justice since Friday.
You got that right.
rainee
New member
Hi y'all
You are being upsetting I need you think about that.
Who is throwing around words about grace and mercy and forgiveness here?
Firstly Paul said the laws of the land did not carry the sword for nothing.
So wouldn't you all say if we fear no forgiveness will come from our law keepers then we shouldn't behave badly instead of talking about grace or mercy or forgiveness?
Secondly Paul himself being a servant and Apostle of The Lord did indeed turn someone over to the evil one for the destruction of his flesh and I think you need to ask yourselves if Paul did that do we really think The Lord is promoting forgiveness in the face of evil?
Think what He really is going to do to the evil one, He hates wickedness, yes?
But about this shooter and so many wanting to make a big deal about the rebel flag, or even him owning a gun, oh my word, are you kiddin? Do you not smell a rat? A deceiving rat and a super gullible weak young human who, look - went into a church to shoot? Doesn't that hint to you something about a spirit of evil?
That kid swallowed lies and got wound up like a top over them, I think. Though I admit I don't understand it, the idea of it makes me sick. So many of the angry young men are going this damned way...
How can we salt them?
Here's the problem - humans can justify themselves usually while condemning others
And self righteous anger and frustration are just food for temptations
When things are going just right for evil, yes? You agree?
You are being upsetting I need you think about that.
Who is throwing around words about grace and mercy and forgiveness here?
Firstly Paul said the laws of the land did not carry the sword for nothing.
So wouldn't you all say if we fear no forgiveness will come from our law keepers then we shouldn't behave badly instead of talking about grace or mercy or forgiveness?
Secondly Paul himself being a servant and Apostle of The Lord did indeed turn someone over to the evil one for the destruction of his flesh and I think you need to ask yourselves if Paul did that do we really think The Lord is promoting forgiveness in the face of evil?
Think what He really is going to do to the evil one, He hates wickedness, yes?
But about this shooter and so many wanting to make a big deal about the rebel flag, or even him owning a gun, oh my word, are you kiddin? Do you not smell a rat? A deceiving rat and a super gullible weak young human who, look - went into a church to shoot? Doesn't that hint to you something about a spirit of evil?
That kid swallowed lies and got wound up like a top over them, I think. Though I admit I don't understand it, the idea of it makes me sick. So many of the angry young men are going this damned way...
How can we salt them?
Here's the problem - humans can justify themselves usually while condemning others
And self righteous anger and frustration are just food for temptations
When things are going just right for evil, yes? You agree?