REPORT: TOL Statement of faith

[Frank Ernest]

I agree with the six literal days as well!!!

2Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

[Aimiel]

I believe every word, and also believe that (had He wanted to) He could have made everything in six tenths of a nanosecond, without breaking a sweat. I think He took His time because it was more believeable for us. I will also add, for those who don't believe this statement of faith: Repent!!! The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

[godrulz]

2Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).

[beanieboy]

I don't like having "in the space of six literal days" in it. Not saying I don't agree...

How was it six literal days if the sun wasn't created until the 3rd "day"?
Did God have a watch?

[godrulz]

How was it six literal days if the sun wasn't created until the 3rd "day"?
Did God have a watch?

God experienced succession, duration, sequence from all eternity. The MEASURE of earthly time for US relates to the sun and moon. Technically, hours pass even before creation. The first, second, and third 24 hour period (same Hebrew word used in Exodus for days relating to Sabbath keeping) had creation activity. Just because the sun was created later, does not mean the first days were not 24 hours. The measure of time can be done in various ways. It does not have to be by the sun. Chronology and sequence happened, with or without the sun. After the sun and man were created, then at some point we formalized our measure of preexisting time. God is not timeless, but exeriences and endless duration of time.

[MrsDearDelmar]

Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).

Thank you very much!!!! You beat me to it! It's like how long a year seems to a five year old, and how short it seems to a 40 or 60 year old person!

[Zakath]

I find two things interesting about the TOL Statment of Faith...

1. That they felt the need to use the Nicene Creed and omit the FILIOQUE.

2. That they felt the need to add their own "pet doctrines" to an historic creed.

Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...

[godrulz]

I find two things interesting about the TOL Statment of Faith...

1. That they felt the need to use the Nicene Creed and omit the FILIOQUE.

2. That they felt the need to add their own "pet doctrines" to an historic creed.

Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...

Filoque and Barth: http://www.leithart.com/archives/001158.php

The TOL statement does mention the procession of the Spirit.

Which pet doctrines are you referring to? I did not see Open Theism or Enyart ideas in the list.

[Knight]

Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...

In some ways yes and in other ways no.

Not even many of the characters in the Bible itself were aligned with God's will, what makes you think the early church fathers would be any different?

[Knight]

Filoque and Barth: http://www.leithart.com/archives/001158.php

The TOL statement does mention the procession of the Spirit.

Which pet doctrines are you referring to? I did not see Open Theism or Enyart ideas in the list.

We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.

[godrulz]

We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.

Zakath seems to think there is some unusual ideas beyond the creeds. I did not find the statement unorthodox.

[Frank Ernest]

Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).

Peter says be not ignorant of a simile?

Good one!

[Frank Ernest]

In some ways yes and in other ways no.

Not even many of the characters in the Bible itself were aligned with God's will, what makes you think the early church fathers would be any different?

BINGO!

[Zakath]

We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.

No surprises there...

[Zakath]

... I did not find the statement unorthodox.

No surprises there either...