ECT NO, THE BIBLE IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN'S ONLY AUTHORITY

Cruciform

New member
People can argue this matter until blue in the face, but the obvious fact is the New Testament faith of the Bible, as laid down by our Lord Jesus and His apostles, is completely sufficient for salvation and sanctification, is the whole gospel of the Christian faith. Nothing more is needed, period.
The assumptions and opinions that you have derived from your recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. Too bad they violate both Scripture itself, as well as the constant belief and teaching of the early Christian Church.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Here Paul teaches that Scripture---that is, the Old Testament---is "profitable" or "useful," NOT that it is in any way numerically sufficient, as you falsely claim above.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
John here refers specifically to the book of Revelation itself, not to the Bible as a whole. In any case, the Catholic Church has never "added" to Scripture, since no new inspired Scripture has been produced since the Apostolic Era.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Yet another Straw Man Fallacy by CM.
Are you going to give us a list of the specific traditions Paul was referring to?


I never claimed that he did. Back to Post #177 above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
But you are attempting to claim that blessed all future teachings of the RCC that are offered as traditions.
 

Cruciform

New member
Are you going to give us a list of the specific traditions Paul was referring to?
Already did.

But you are attempting to claim that blessed all future teachings of the RCC that are offered as traditions.
Rather, that Paul's reference to "traditions" necessarily includes within it all Traditional teachings of Christ's one historic Church for all time.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Already did.
No, you didn't.

You have attempted to claim that the traditions Paul taught include all of the man-made traditions that your sect has stolen from the Pagan religions around them.

You have failed to provide any list of the traditions that Paul actually taught.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
...but not ONLY the Bible (see this).


Then the Bible itself is false, since it teaches contrary to your premise (see this).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Do you really think I am going to take the teachings of the Catholic Church to heart. I don't see the Church here.


2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 

Cruciform

New member
Do you really think I am going to take the teachings of the Catholic Church to heart.
If you possessed the will and ability to honestly evaluate your own present Protestant assumptions and opinions, then yes, you might---with God's grace---come to accept the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church. It's entirely up to you.

I don't see the Church here.
And yet the Church is most definitely here.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Already did.
So no, you are not. You are just going to declare victory and start posting post number in order to have the last word. You will no doubt do thus as your philosophy background has lead you to believe that if have the last word, you won.


Rather, that Paul's reference to "traditions" necessarily includes within it all Traditional teachings of Christ's one historic Church for all time.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
No, they necessarily would not include any teachings or traditions which he does not know. You are attempting to make something true by definition but your definition is fundementally flawed.
 

PhilipJames

New member
Hello genuine,

The writings of your sect put a lot of emphasis on using the word "church" but never seem to explain that Jesus said He would build His ekklesia (not "church") on a rock.

What is it about the word ekklesia that offends your sect?

church is the English translation of the Latin 'ecclesia'. Latin is the official language of the Church (or Ecclesia if you prefer)

Peace!
PJ
 

genuineoriginal

New member
church is the English translation of the Latin 'ecclesia'.
No, 'assembly' is the English translation of the Greek 'ekklesia'
'Church' is a pagan intrusion into Christianity.
_____
Christ's Ekklesia and The Church Compared

If you look in a dictionary, under the word Church, it's defined as "a place of worship of any religion as a Jewish or heathen temple." When the world says "Church," they are thinking of a building or a structure, and this is actually the original meaning of Church, but somehow it transferred over as being the body of Christ.

In Smith's Bible Dictionary from 1884, at page 452,, it says "the derivation of the word 'church' is uncertain. It is found in the Teutonic and Slavonic languages and answers to the derivatives of ekklesia, which are naturally found in the romance languages and by foreign importation elsewhere. The word is generally said to be derived from the Greek kyriakos, meaning the lord's house. But the derivation has been too hastily assumed. It is probably associated with the Scottish kirk, the Latin circus/circulous, the Greek klukos, because the congregations were gathered in circles."

And if you go into congregations that were gathered in circles, that's what the pagans did, they gathered in prayer circles, that's all pagan religions. After reading that comment, you might see why that word "Church" was adopted, because so many of the people that were being brought into the Church were of pagan origins, and they accommodated those pagans.
_____​
 

PhilipJames

New member
No, 'assembly' is the English translation of the Greek 'ekklesia'

definition of church:
1

: a building for public and especially Christian worship


2

: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body


3

often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as

a : the whole body of Christians

b : denomination <the Presbyterian church>

c : congregation

4

: a public divine worship <goes to church every Sunday>


5

: the clerical profession <considered the church as a possible career>

taken from here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church

Latin- English translation:

We have found the following english words and translations for "ecclesia":

Latin
ecclesia
English
church

taken from here: http://www.translate-latin.com/en/dictionary-latin-english/ecclesia


And regardless of the origin of the word 'church'.. English as a living language is constantly morphing and changing... what some barbarian did or didn't use that word (or something similar to it) for has no bearing on the current usage of 'Church' referring to a Christian community.

But if that particular word causes you to stumble... I will try to remember to use Ecclesia in any future conversations with you (please feel to remind me if I forget ;) )

Peace!
PJ
 

csuguy

Well-known member
Its not the only source, but its the most reliable. Written word is more resilient than the spoken word overtime. Also alternate sources of tradition - like councils and creeds - are usually themselves based upon an interpretation of the scriptures. Thus the merit of such traditions can be judged by studying the underlying source material.
 

dreadknought

New member
"THE BIBLE, NOT ORAL TRADITION, IS OUR ONLY AUTHORITY!"

False. Christ sent the Apostles to teach all things that He had taught them, but the Bible tells us that not all that He did was written in Scripture (Jn. 21:25). Therefore, if all is to be taught, and not all is in Scripture, part of Christian truth must be elsewhere. But where?

St. Paul tells us clearly to "stand fast and hold to the traditions which we have learned, either by word or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:14).

Thus, the Catholic Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), teaches that Divine Revelation is contained fully in the Word of God, which is comprised of Sacred Scripture and sacred Tradition.




http://www.StreetEvangelization.com
Wow. Sounds good. Too bad there is no Trust in your compassion.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
And regardless of the origin of the word 'church'.. English as a living language is constantly morphing and changing... what some barbarian did or didn't use that word (or something similar to it) for has no bearing on the current usage of 'Church' referring to a Christian community.
When Jesus (the barbarian you are referring to) spoke of an assembly, the word He used did not have all the distortions that the word church has now.
Unfortunately, the distortions that have been created by the mistranslation of "ekklesia" (assembly) into "church" (building) has caused much confusion in the body of Christ.
 
The assumptions and opinions that you have derived from your recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. Too bad they violate both Scripture itself, as well as the constant belief and teaching of the early Christian Church.

This is a prime example of Catholic irrationality. The Bible faith is the most ancient, fundamental faith, the Christianity of the first century church. It predates all the perversions of the Roman cult. A simple root of much of the problem with Catholicism are all these deceptive and twisted arguments that don't even reach a level of common sense.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
 
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